US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake

Tomorrow the US Supreme Court will hear arguments regarding the Christian baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

Here's an excerpt from a Huffington post article regarding this that illustrates the two opposing sides of the issue:

The U.S. Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments on Tuesday in a case that could have huge ramifications for freedom of speech and protections against discrimination. But it all began with a same-sex couple who just wanted a special wedding cake.

In 2012, Masterpiece Cakeshop owner Jack Phillips pointed to his conservative Christian beliefs in refusing to make a custom wedding cake for Colorado couple Charlie Craig and David Mullins.

Phillips argues that when he designs his custom cakes, he is an artist and that he can’t be forced to use his artistic expression to send a message he finds religiously objectionable ― in this case, that any marriage other than one between a man and a woman should be celebrated. His lawyers say it is a matter of free speech.

The Trump administration has taken up the baker’s cause. “Forcing Phillips to create expression for and participate in a ceremony that violates his sincerely held religious beliefs invades his First Amendment rights,” the Justice Department wrote in an amicus brief filed in September.

But in refusing to make Craig and Mullins a custom cake, Phillips violated Colorado anti-discrimination law that prohibits businesses from denying services to people based on sexual orientation, among other factors. The Colorado Civil Rights Commission ruled against him in May 2014.

Several court decisions later, the case has reached the Supreme Court ― with the scope of free speech and anti-discrimination protections on the line.

The implications of Phillips’ claim that he should be able to deny the couple services based on his free speech rights as a Christian are “staggering,” American Civil Liberties Union attorneys representing Craig and Mullins wrote in a brief filed last year.

“People hold religious beliefs about a wide variety of things, including racial and
religious segregation and the role of women in society,” the ACLU lawyers wrote. “If religious motivation exempted businesses from anti-discrimination laws, government would be powerless to protect all Americans from the harms of invidious discrimination.”

So there are two conflicting points of principles here, anti-discrimination, and the first amendment rights of freedom of expression and freedom of religion.

What are your thoughts on which way SCOTUS will rule, and how do you think they should rule on this case? Why do you feel this way?

I don't think he will win, but I also don't think he should be forced to do this either. There are other bakeries to go to.

At times it is hard to take the hysteria over this seriously. I was reading an article earlier today about this and the mother of one of the gay guys says she was with her son in the immediate aftermath of this event and he began crying and shaking.

Jack Phillips is a moron

/end thread.

Originally posted by Surtur
I was reading an article earlier today about this and the mother of one of the gay guys says she was with her son in the immediate aftermath of this event and he began crying and shaking.

Triple A title! haha

But, yes, some are getting tired of Judicial Activism from our Supreme Court and they feel that they are not "doing things correctly."

I think business owners should be able to turn away people that they disagree with and it be protected under the 1st Amendment. Just the same as I think people should get to horribly review that business if they turn away gays and let the public vote to not shop at that business.

And if they don't go out of business, looks like people either don't care or support that position.

Let me give an example because I don't like hypocrites:

I don't buy Tyson foods because of how poorly they treat their animals. I am not be a vegan but I'm close to being an animal loving, tree hugging hippy. So companies that have rubbed me the wrong way, especially when it comes to the treatment of animals, don't get my dollars.

FYI, Lenny and Larry's cookies are made with high standards and if you're vegan, they are good sources of protein:

Today Lenny & Larry's The Complete Cookie® forms the foundation of a whole new category of food: Baked Nutrition®. Vegan, Kosher, and Non-GMO – using only the finest ingredients – Lenny & Larry's The Complete Cookie® contains our secretly formulated blend of vegetable protein. No animal stuff in our cookies!

Other than their non-GMO stance (which I think it ignorant), I love their products and I don't feel bad eating them because they are a US company and they don't hurt animals unnecessarily to make their food.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
LMFAO seriously?! What a joke kek

I'd daresay maybe someone isn't emotionally mature enough to get married if being denied a wedding cake causes them to break down in tears.

That is the way a child reacts. I bet this person has a shitload of participation trophies at home.

Love thy neighbour, unless they're gay, I guess

Originally posted by Scribble
Love thy neighbour, unless they're gay, I guess

The dude is citing religion.

Can I ask a muslim baker for a Muhammad cake? Do not respond with "no because it is against their religion" lol. Their offense? Irrelevant.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Triple A title! haha

But, yes, some are getting tired of Judicial Activism from our Supreme Court and they feel that they are not "doing things correctly."

I think business owners should be able to turn away people that they disagree with and it be protected under the 1st Amendment. Just the same as I think people should get to horribly review that business if they turn away gays and let the public vote to not shop at that business.

And if they don't go out of business, looks like people either don't care or support that position.

Let me give an example because I don't like hypocrites:

I don't buy Tyson foods because of how poorly they treat their animals. I am not be a vegan but I'm close to being an animal loving, tree hugging hippy. So companies that have rubbed me the wrong way, especially when it comes to the treatment of animals, don't get my dollars.

FYI, Lenny and Larry's cookies are made with high standards and if you're vegan, they are good sources of protein:

Other than their non-GMO stance (which I think it ignorant), I love their products and I don't feel bad eating them because they are a US company and they don't hurt animals unnecessarily to make their food.

Weird thing is, the guy was willing to sacrifice business. I read he just stopped doing wedding cakes. Which not only did he apparently enjoy doing, but they made up 40% of his business.

So I dunno, true bigots rarely seem willing to lose out on shitloads of cash. Unless they already have plenty of money.

He's essentially been f*cked over because he doesn't wanna be forced to make a cake for a gay wedding lol. Victory...I guess? A livelihood might be destroyed, but f*ck it they had to virtue signal.

I can almost guarantee these people(one of whom cried over this) have busted out cliches like "it's about the principle, not the cake".

PS: It's about the cake lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
The dude is citing religion.

Can I ask a muslim baker for a Muhammad cake? Do not respond with "no because it is against their religion" lol. Their offense? Irrelevant.

Originally posted by Scribble
Not really, the religion thing would be fair enough in most circumstances, like a Muhammed cake would be against one of their core beliefs. It'd be like asking a Christian to make a Satan cake or something, in which case, fair enough, I wouldn't expect them to make that cake. This 'Christian' is citing such a tiny part of his religion whilst ignoring the larger, core beliefs. Just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy involved.

They are against gay marriage and they do not wanna make a custom cake for a gay marriage lol. Seems simple enough to me.

Also, muslims are not big fans of gays. I wonder if there would be an outcry if a Muslim didn't wanna bake a cake because they were gay?

Lol who am I kidding? There wouldn't be anywhere near as big an outcry.

Originally posted by Surtur
They are against gay marriage and they do not wanna make a custom cake for a gay marriage lol. Seems simple enough to me.

Also, muslims are not big fans of gays. I wonder if there would be an outcry if a Muslim didn't wanna bake a cake because they were gay?

Lol who am I kidding? There wouldn't be anywhere near as big an outcry.

Originally posted by Scribble
They are meant to treat all people as equals and let God judge in the afterlife. They are meant to love thy neighbour, and do to others as they would have done to them. That's Christianity. Or, it's supposed to be, anyway. So the religious argument, in their case, is flimsy at best. I think their God will forgive them for baking a gay cake, as it would be in keeping with the more important rules and actual commandments, as opposed to the other less structurally important rules such as "gaybad".

God would forgive them for baking a cake? And no doubt Allah would forgive them for drawing Muhammad....lol. Worst case scenario they just behead an infidel.

Originally posted by Surtur
God would forgive them for baking a cake? And no doubt Allah would forgive them for drawing Muhammad....lol. Worst case scenario they just behead an infidel.

Originally posted by Scribble
Why do you keep talking about Muslims? Idgi, are there any Muslims even involved in this scenario? What does a potential yet entirely unfounded and fictional double-standard scenario have to do with this real-life scenario that is literally happening in the real world right now?

Cuz I'm tired of religious double standards in this country. You'd think in a majority christian country the double standard would exist the other way around, but nope lol.

Originally posted by Scribble
Not really, the religion thing would be fair enough in most circumstances, like a Muhammed cake would be against one of their core beliefs. It'd be like asking a Christian to make a Satan cake or something, in which case, fair enough, I wouldn't expect them to make that cake. This 'Christian' is citing such a tiny part of his religion whilst ignoring the larger, core beliefs. Just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy involved.

Well, to be the fairest of them all, I'd make a Satan cake. Because my business is to make cakes for people based on their orders, not to dictate my beliefs onto others. But that's only because I see a clear line between business and personal beliefs.

I'm not supporting their beliefs. I am not endorsing their beliefs. I'm doing a job that I'm getting paid for and everything being done is legal.

The non sequitur is when someone says, "Would you make a cake of a man touching a boy for NAMBLA?" Well, now, that's illegal, isn't it, dipshit? It's not illegal to be homosexual (thankfully). It's not illegal to worship Satan. But it is certainly illegal to abuse children.

"Would you make a slave themed cake if it was 1810?" SUUUURE! It's 1820, slavery is legal, and I wouldn't know any better. Doesn't mean I would be a slave owner or endorse owning slaves. I'm still running a business.

Honestly, I could make any cake that didn't disgust me. So I may not be able to make the slave cake...It'd make me "mad, bro."

Originally posted by Surtur
Cuz I'm tired of religious double standards in this country. You'd think in a majority christian country the double standard would exist the other way around, but nope lol.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, to be the fairest of them all, I'd make a Satan cake. Because my business is to make cakes for people based on their orders, not to dictate my beliefs onto others. But that's only because I see a clear line between business and personal beliefs.

I'm not supporting their beliefs. I am not endorsing their beliefs. I'm doing a job that I'm getting paid for and everything being done is legal.

The non sequitur is when someone says, "Would you make a cake of a man touching a boy for NAMBLA?" Well, now, that's illegal, isn't it, dipshit? It's not illegal to be homosexual (thankfully). It's not illegal to worship Satan. But it is certainly illegal to abuse children.

"Would you make a slave themed cake if it was 1810?" SUUUURE! It's 1820, slavery is legal, and I wouldn't know any better. Doesn't mean I would be a slave owner or endorse owning slaves. I'm still running a business.

Honestly, I could make any cake that didn't disgust me. So I may not be able to make the slave cake...It'd make me "mad, bro."

Coming back to the Muslim thing (sigh, I wish I didn't have to), asking a Muslim to make a Mohammed cake (even if their shop isn't explicitly a Muslim cake shop) would also just be an obvious troll attempt, as nobody needs a Mohammed cake. A Muslim wouldn't want one as it'd be against their religion, so whoever is ordering it is clearly just trying to rile up the shop owner.

Originally posted by Scribble
Coming back to the Muslim thing (sigh, I wish I didn't have to), asking a Muslim to make a Mohammed cake (even if their shop isn't explicitly a Muslim cake shop) would also just be an obvious troll attempt, as nobody needs a Mohammed cake. A Muslim wouldn't want one as it'd be against their religion, so whoever is ordering it is clearly just trying to rile up the shop owner.

Speak for yourself, mother f*cker! angry

Muslim Tiers (damn, this pun is amazing) are delicious. 😠

Originally posted by Scribble
This double-standard is entirely fictional though. You invented it. 😐 Just because you assume it would happen that way, doesn't mean there's any ground or reason to debate it. In fact, debating a fictional scenario is just taking debate away from the real-life scenario that we're supposed to be talking about.

It's not fictional though, lol. One of the campus reform videos(or a video in the same vein as those) had them going around, asking if a Christian denying a service based on religion was okay. I wish I could find it again, but they were then asked if a Muslim doing the same was okay. Do you think they were consistent? It's not everybody who thinks that, but it absolutely is not solely in my head.

And since you don't live here...lol, how would you even be able to say this double standard doesn't exist?

How would you even think it doesn't also exist by you? What do you guys hear more about in the news: Islamaphobia or the polls that show 40% of british muslims want homosexuality illegal, etc.?

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not fictional though, lol. One of the campus reform videos(or a video in the same vein as those) had them going around, asking if a Christian denying a service based on religion was okay. I wish I could find it again, but they were then asked if a Muslim doing the same was okay. Do you think they were consistent? It's not everybody who thinks that, but it absolutely is not solely in my head.

And since you don't live here...lol, how would you even be able to say this double standard doesn't exist?

How would you even think it doesn't also exist by you? What do you guys hear more about in the news: Islamaphobia or the polls that show 40% of british muslims want homosexuality illegal, etc.?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Speak for yourself, mother f*cker! angry

Muslim Tiers (damn, this pun is amazing) are delicious. 😠

Alright, I'll give you that one. That was pretty good.