Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ah I knew you'd get all prickly when I posted that. Predictable.
Your deflection tells me you don't really have a counter present for my point.
There's nothing wrong with critiquing an unsubstantiated ideology. That's what rational people do. 👆
Christmas and 25th of December
Many Christians are unaware that the true spirit of reverence which Muslims display towards Jesus and his mother Mary spring from the fountainhead of their faith as prescribed in the Holy Quran. Most do not know that a Muslim does not take the name of Jesus , without saying Eesa alai-hiss-salaam i.e. (Jesus peace be upon him).
Jesus is commonly considered to have been born on the 25th of December. However, it is common knowledge among Christian scholars that he was not born on this day. It is well known that the first Christian churches held their festival in May, April, or January. Scholars of the first two centuries AD even differ in which year he was born. Some believing that he was born fully twenty years before the current accepted date. So how was the 25th of December selected as the birthday of Jesus ?
Grolier's encyclopedia says: "Christmas is the feast of the birth of Jesus Christ, celebrated on December 25 ... Despite the beliefs about Christ that the birth stories expressed, the church did not observe a festival for the celebration of the event until the 4th century.... since 274, under the emperor Aurelian, Rome had celebrated the feast of the "Invincible Sun" on December 25. In the Eastern Church, January 6, a day also associated with the winter solstice, was initially preferred. In course of time, however, the West added the Eastern date as the Feast of the Epiphany, and the East added the Western date of Christmas".
So who else celebrated the 25th of December as the birth day of their gods before it was agreed upon as the birth day of Jesus ? Well, there are the people of India who rejoice, decorate their houses with garlands, and give presents to their friends on this day. The people of China also celebrate this day and close their shops. Buddha is believed to have been born on this day. The great savior and god of the Persians, Mithras, is also believed to have been born on the 25th of December long before the coming of Jesus .
The Egyptians celebrated this day as the birth day of their great savior Horus, the Egyptian god of light and the son of the "virgin mother" and "queen of the heavens" Isis. Osiris, god of the dead and the underworld in Egypt, the son of "the holy virgin", again was believed to have been born on the 25th of December.
The Greeks celebrated the 25th of December as the birthday of Hercules, the son of the supreme god of the Greeks, Zeus, through the mortal woman Alcmene Bacchus, the god of wine and revelry among the Romans (known among the Greeks as Dionysus) was also born on this day.
Adonis, revered as a "dying-and-rising god" among the Greeks, miraculously was also born on the 25th of December. His worshipers held him a yearly festival representing his death and resurrection, in midsummer. The ceremonies of his birthday are recorded to have taken place in the same cave in Bethlehem which is claimed to have been the birth place of Jesus .
The Scandinavians celebrated the 25th of December as the birthday of their god Freyr, the son of their supreme god of the heavens, Odin.
The Romans observed this day as the birthday of the god of the sun, Natalis Solis Invicti ("Birthday of Sol the invincible"😉. There was great rejoicing and all shops were closed. There was illumination and public games. Presents were exchanged, and the slaves were indulged in great liberties. These are the same Romans who would later preside over the council of Nicea (325 CE) which lead to the official Christian recognition of the "Trinity" as the "true" nature of God, and the "fact" that Jesus was born on the 25th of December too.
In Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon says: "The Roman Christians, ignorant of his (Christ's) birth, fixed the solemn festival to the 25th of December, the Brumalia, or Winter Solstice, when the Pagans annually celebrated the birth of Sol " vol. ii, p. 383.
Christians opposed to Christmas
There are several Christian groups who are opposed to Christmas. For example, they take the verse from the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4 as an admonition against decorating Christmas trees.
The King James Version reads: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen.... For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
In order to understand this subject, it is helpful to trace some of the history of Christmas avoidance, particularly its roots in Puritanism.
The Puritans believed that the first-century church modeled a Christianity that modern Christians should copy. They attempted to base their faith and practice solely on the New Testament, and their position on Christmas reflected their commitment to practice a pure, scriptural form of Christianity. Puritans argued that God reserved to himself the determination of all proper forms of worship, and that he disapproved of any human innovations - even innovations that celebrated the great events of salvation. The name Christmas also alienated many Puritans.
Christmas, after all, meant "the mass of Christ." The mass was despised as a Roman Catholic institution that undermined the Protestant concept of Christ, who offered himself once for all. The Puritans' passionate avoidance of any practice that was associated with papal Rome caused them to overlook the fact that in many countries the name for the day had nothing to do with the Catholic mass, but focused instead on Jesus' birth. The mass did not evolve into the form abhorred by Protestants until long after Christmas was widely observed. The two customs had separate, though interconnected, histories.
As ardent Protestants, Puritans identified the embracing of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the early 300s CE as the starting point of the degeneration and corruption of the church. They believed the corruption of the church was brought on by the interweaving of the church with the pagan Roman state. To Puritans, Christmas was impure because it entered the Roman Church sometime in this period. No one knows the exact year or under what circumstances Roman Christians began to celebrate the birth of their Lord, but by the mid-300s CE, the practice was well established.
when Christ was born Ahmed Deedat a lecture debates youtube
حكم التهنئة بالكريسماس - ذاكر نايك Zakir Naik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5pDQQ9EU8
when Christ was born Ahmed Deedat a lecture debates youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFfPTgHee6c
Christ in Islam a sequel (full studio debate) - Sheikh Ahmed ...
‪
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWHt5oVAGk
\\\
Originally posted by Surtur
That’s a good question. In Pakistan, Muslims get married to their second cousins (but not first cousins or siblings) or at least to someone’s who is loosely related. Not sure if that’s just a Paki thing or Islamic thing because I’m not that familiar with how marriages work in Muslim-majority countries with the exception of Pakistan. I know I’m going to sound stupid for saying this, but none of them seems to horrify me because it’s always seemed normal to me.
I don't debate religion, or politics mostly... the two really most divisive topics ever.
I do imagine something out in the outer darkness chuckling like crazy over everybody at each others throats (metaphorically) about what went on thousands of years ago.
In the words of Palpatine... "Good good, let the hate flow through you."
Yeah there's never going to be peace, mankind is going to extinct itself way before that.
Carry on.
Originally posted by Nuke Nixon
I don't debate religion, or politics mostly... the two really most divisive topics ever.I do imagine something out in the outer darkness chuckling like crazy over everybody at each others throats (metaphorically) about what went on thousands of years ago.
In the words of Palpatine... "Good good, let the hate flow through you."
Yeah there's never going to be peace, mankind is going to extinct itself way before that.
Carry on.
It's a fight over who has the better imaginary friend.
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
That’s a good question. In Pakistan, Muslims get married to their second cousins (but not first cousins or siblings) or at least to someone’s who is loosely related. Not sure if that’s just a Paki thing or Islamic thing because I’m not that familiar with how marriages work in Muslim-majority countries with the exception of Pakistan. I know I’m going to sound stupid for saying this, but none of them seems to horrify me because it’s always seemed normal to me.
This is kinda disturbing:
Minister: Muslim 'inbreeding' in Britain is causing massive surge in birth defects
1400 yrs of Muslim Inbreeding
Why not 10,000 years of human inbreeding? Oh forget it...lets continue...
Having read the bible regarding this issue , I challenge ANYONE to show me just one direct verse that prohibits cousin marriage? Cousin marriages were common in the West throughout history (Christian era)..Many royals married within their family. Even 60 years ago , cousin marriage was NORMAL occurring in the West. Einstein was married to her cousin. Darwin is the same...and many more. Even Bible has many cousin marriages , approved by God. Heck! even Jesus mother was married to her cousin , Joseph (Catholic Encyclopedia)..Even today , in South India , Christian majority , cousin marriage is not a taboo..You can find hundreds of thousands of cousin-couples in the Christian global community today.
Plus : Islam is probably the ONLY religion that PROMOTES critical thinking. It challenges others to produce a book like Qur'an , if they think Qur'an is false. It urges its followers to 'discover the secrets of nature' etc etc. Muslims written critical books regarding Qur'an and Qur'anic claims in 10th century , a time where Christians would get their head cut off for question bible. Muslims , in those times , didn't only question but CRITICIZED Qur'an...and scholars responded with their scholarly responses...But alas , how an illiterate of basic sciences (the author) would know this?
God initiated marriage, with the housing and affection and compassion that are between spouses.
Did not come verse or talk properly in the prevention of inbreeding.
It came forensic evidence other than this, God Almighty said: (50. O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) verse ... Parties / 50
He married the Prophet peace be upon him of Zaynab bint colt may Allah be pleased with her, the daughter of his uncle, and the husband of his daughter Fatima, his cousin Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him, suggesting that there is nothing wrong with inbreeding.
And finally ...
"There is no talk properly to prevent marriages between relatives,
\\\
Though Jesus is mentioned by name in twenty-five places in the Holy Quran he is also addressed with respect as: "Ibne Maryam" - son of Mary; as Masi (Heb) Messiah - translated as Christ; "Abd-ullah" servant of Allah; "Rasul -Ullah" - Messenger of Allah.
He is spoken of as "the word of God", as "the spirit of God", as a "Sign of God", and numerous other epithets of honor spread over fifteen different chapters. The Holy Quran honors this great Messenger of God, and over the past fourteen hundred years Muslims continue to hold Jesus as a symbol of truth.
------
(156) 156 - That they rejected faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
(157) 157 - That they said (in boast), we killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of God; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:
(158) 158 - Nay, God raised him up unto himself; and God is exalted in power, wise;
-Christ's peace be upon him
Yet live to God at the age of young people did not die so far
The person who crucified him is one of the disciples of Christ (Jude), who is told about Christ and Wuxi and betrayed by the Romans
And the punishment of Judah
# God gave a semi-Jesus peace be upon him Judas the traitor
And so
God saved Jesus peace be upon him, and God raised up to heaven until the coming to earth again to kill the Antichrist, and then die like any man should die in the end
-Prophet Jesus came to complete the message after the Prophet Moses.
The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him came to complete the message of Jesus was the true
But now is not located Gospel Jesus
Located is now the founder of the Christian Gospel of Paul distorted
31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
-Jesus peace be upon him
Does not have enough time to tell all
For revelation
Due to the ongoing pursuit
So
Tell the disciples of the Prophet after him next
-God raised his body and spirit
Such as Muhammad peace be upon him on a trip alisraa and almiraag
Christ's peace be upon him
Will come down to earth
Governed by Islamic law
And kill the Antichrist and kill the pigs and break the cross
All this is not for Muslims
Because our religion does not require a full increase
God says in the Holy Qur'an
(3) This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.
But
Christ's peace be upon him
Will come down to earth
For Christians to guide them to the truth
It Abd Allah and His Messenger
Jesus is not God
nor son
Watch on YouTube
Ahmed Deedat
Why Jesus returns to earth- - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grz-lIKoFN4
Originally posted by Surtur
Did this f*ckhead just defend inbreeding? I'm not even gonna read the novel he typed, I stopped after "nothing in the bible prohibits cousin marriage" because he went full retard there.I'm talking full on Corky from "Life Goes On" type shit.
Yep, ennin really seemed to be triggered. Furthermore, his claim that the Bible never prohibit “cousin marriage” (a form of inbreeding/incest) is flat out contradicted by the implications of Leviticus 18:6.