Originally posted by quanchi112
So what's that prove ? He has a permanent chip on his shoulder that won't let him be complacent. Luke's opinion is different. We already know both he and Rey's force power is rising to insane levels.
No, Luke's opinion isn't different. He says Ben has lots of raw strength, he never suggests Ben could defeat Vader in a fight.
Kylo himself thinks Vader is greater than him. Snoke seems to think so too. Literally the only person who thinks Kylo would win here is you.
Originally posted by The EllimistWe are talking about raw power he's only felt once before in Ben. He felt Vader's power whereas Kylo has an innate fear of failure.
No, Luke's opinion isn't different. He says Ben has lots of raw strength, he never suggests Ben could defeat Vader in a fight.Kylo himself thinks Vader is greater than him. Snoke seems to think so too. Literally the only person who thinks Kylo would win here is you.
He has a chip on his shoulder. Snoke mocked him to manipulate him. The visual dictionary says he's tremendous at manipulating him. If you don't grasp the point of him mocking Kylo then I can't help you.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We are talking about raw power he's only felt once before in Ben.
Um, yeah, I know. I'm telling you that it doesn't contradict anything because raw power != actualized power.
Your entire argument for both Snoke > Luke and Kylo > Vader is that the f*cking dark side users are underestimating themselves and need quanchi to show them just how powerful they are. Of course you've presented exactly zero evidence that Kylo is on Vader's level except that he has lots of "raw power", but hey, that's on you.
Originally posted by The EllimistBased on what ?
Um, yeah, I know. I'm telling you that it doesn't contradict anything because raw power != actualized power.Your entire argument for both Snoke > Luke and Kylo > Vader is that the f*cking dark side users are underestimating themselves and need quanchi to show them just how powerful they are. Of course you've presented exactly zero evidence that Kylo is on Vader's level except that he has lots of "raw power", but hey, that's on you.
Snoke's utter domination of two characters whereas Vader never even dominated Kenobi in force power. Hell, they stalemated and Vader is more powerful in the force.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ?
The definition of "raw"?
If you think raw = actual power then Rey would be more powerful than Snoke or Luke, but she clearly isn't.
Snoke's utter domination of two characters whereas Vader never even dominated Kenobi in force power. Hell, they stalemated and Vader is more powerful in the force.
What? We're comparing Kylo and Vader here, not Snoke and Vader.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The definition of "raw"?If you think raw = actual power then Rey would be more powerful than Snoke or Luke, but she clearly isn't.
What? We're comparing Kylo and Vader here, not Snoke and Vader.
We see her raw power resist Kylo's trained power so it's very impressive whether it's raw or not.
Vader at the point of episodes four to six had his ceiling lowered immensely after Rots. Kylo wins. If we look at common opponents Luke who fared better ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see her raw power resist Kylo's trained power so it's very impressive whether it's raw or not.Vader at the point of episodes four to six had his ceiling lowered immensely after Rots. Kylo wins. If we look at common opponents Luke who fared better ?
Lmao at your circular logic. You say Rey is powerful because she resisted Ren, and Ren is powerful because he has lots of raw power, which is impressive because Rey has that same raw power and resisted Ben.
Just. Stop.
Also Vader did better because he was dueling Luke while Rey got disarmed in seconds. LOL
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ?Snoke's utter domination of two characters whereas Vader never even dominated Kenobi in force power. Hell, they stalemated and Vader is more powerful in the force.
You do know why Vader never dominated Ben right?
Ben, even as an Old was still feared by the Empire. He’s connection to the force became even more powerful. Even Vader acknowledge in Ep4.
Ben only become more powerful as he aged. It’s even alluded that Jin further taught Ben after he had died. That’s why Ben was able to become one with the Force.
Originally posted by The EllimistNo, based off Luke and Snoke's statements.
Lmao at your circular logic. You say Rey is powerful because she resisted Ren, and Ren is powerful because he has lots of raw power, which is impressive because Rey has that same raw power and resisted Ben.Just. Stop.
Also Vader did better because he was dueling Luke while Rey got disarmed in seconds. LOL
Rey isnt at the top of her technical skill game with a saber yet. Vader was but poor guy never saw his true potential because of that pesky Kenobi.
Originally posted by SquallXBecause Vader wasn't that great and was still a peer to Kenobi. They feared the Jedi especially one as powerful as Kenobi.
You do know why Vader never dominated Ben right?Ben, even as an Old was still feared by the Empire. He’s connection to the force became even more powerful. Even Vader acknowledge in Ep4.
Ben only become more powerful as he aged. It’s even alluded that Jin further taught Ben after he had died. That’s why Ben was able to become one with the Force.
None of this matters to his skill with a lightsaber. He was far past his best as was Vader. This was an era bereft of young up and coming Jedi. No, he debeloped the same techniques as taught to Yoda by Qui. This has nothing to do with overall power. Anakin was able to merge with the force in Rotj as well. That didn't mean shit tbh. We've seen many Jedi merge with the force post death.
Originally posted by playa1258His physical skills and mobility were greatly diminished. So yes he got smarter in other areas but he was nowhere near his potential. Kylo destroys him.
Actually Vader continued to gain skills as well when he got older.None of that will matter to you because you hate Vader as much as Superman and will argue he loses against a tribble.
Originally posted by KingD19He was destroyed by Luke, didn't show an edge on Kenobi despite age taking a toll on Obi, and he also failed to even retrieve the Death Star plans against some non force sens robes who weren't even trained soldiers. Kylo wrecks him, stooge.
This is Vader with all his feats idiot. He wrecks them both easily.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was destroyed by Luke, didn't show an edge on Kenobi despite age taking a toll on Obi, and he also failed to even retrieve the Death Star plans against some non force sens robes who weren't even trained soldiers. Kylo wrecks him, stooge.
Convenient how you ignore his fight against Ahsoka, or him b*tching Ezra and Kanaan. Or casually flinging an AT-ST. Kylo and Rey apparently can't even use the Force in combat, as it would've helped them greatly against the Praetorian Guard.
Originally posted by KingD19Tano ****ed his face up and he dominated Ezra...who cares ?
Convenient how you ignore his fight against Ahsoka, or him b*tching Ezra and Kanaan. Or casually flinging an AT-ST. Kylo and Rey apparently can't even use the Force in combat, as it would've helped them greatly against the Praetorian Guard.
Or used his power to move it after he was taken down by it by Kanan. We see Kylo use the force in combat. Just evcause he does t use it in every scene doesn't mean he can't. It just means he didn't you moron. Kylo came out on top did he not.
Vader would die by the guards. 🙂