So after Thor 1 where Thor became worthy again, he was essentially going to kill Cap for trying to break up a fight by going overboard with that much energy? He's really that blood thirsty and still worthy? Wasn't the whole point of the first movie that he became worthy by learning humility and controlling his temper? So he then unleashes something like that on someone who he knows would basically instantly die? For trying to break up a fight? I thought the implication was that vibranium had a strange effect on his hammer. If that is just a leap in logic, then fine, but it's no more a leap in logic than what some other posters have said.
Also, silent master, why did Thor need that machine in Age of Ultron then if he was strong enough to one shot the whole island? Why bother with it? Why not just hit the island until it broke?
Originally posted by emporerpants
So after Thor 1 where Thor became worthy again, he was essentially going to kill Cap for trying to break up a fight by going overboard with that much energy? He's really that blood thirsty and still worthy? Wasn't the whole point of the first movie that he became worthy by learning humility and controlling his temper? So he then unleashes something like that on someone who he knows would basically instantly die? For trying to break up a fight? I thought the implication was that vibranium had a strange effect on his hammer.Also, silent master, why did Thor need that machine in Age of Ultron then if he was strong enough to one shot the whole island? Why bother with it? Why not just hit the island until it broke?
People get pissed off. When warriors and soldiers get pissed off, it can end up being deadly. Thor learned humility, he didn't learn to be a pacifist. As far as he was concerned, there were some earthlings meddling around with his brother and the tesseract. I'm not saying Thor was right to go for a killing blow against Cap, but let's not pretend that he was only going for a love tap.
As for Cap's shield reacting "weirdly" to Thor's hammer, all it seems to me is that the shield redirects the energy from the blow into a shockwave instead getting redirected to the wielder, because otherwise Cap's arm would have broken. We know the shield doesn't absorb the shock completely, because otherwise there wouldn't be any shockwave. We know the shield doesn't have energy of its own to amplify an energy/shock applied to it, because otherwise it should have done so every time it was hit, shot, slashed, etc.
So the only explanation left is that it merely redirects the energy away from the bearer. It just so happens that Thor's blow is so strong that the shockwave that results from it is that big. It's really not that complicated, we've seen Thor create shockwaves by simply hitting the ground, and the ground would absorb shock a lot more than a metal shield. So if Thor can make such a shockwave from a ground slam it makes sense that hitting the shield causes a bigger shockwave.
Originally posted by FrothByte
People get pissed off. When warriors and soldiers get pissed off, it can end up being deadly. Thor learned humility, he didn't learn to be a pacifist. As far as he was concerned, there were some earthlings meddling around with his brother and the tesseract. I'm not saying Thor was right to go for a killing blow against Cap, but let's not pretend that he was only going for a love tap.As for Cap's shield reacting "weirdly" to Thor's hammer, all it seems to me is that the shield redirects the energy from the blow into a shockwave instead getting redirected to the wielder, because otherwise Cap's arm would have broken. We know the shield doesn't absorb the shock completely, because otherwise there wouldn't be any shockwave. We know the shield doesn't have energy of its own to amplify an energy/shock applied to it, because otherwise it should have done so every time it was hit, shot, slashed, etc.
So the only explanation left is that it merely redirects the energy away from the bearer. It just so happens that Thor's blow is so strong that the shockwave that results from it is that big. It's really not that complicated, we've seen Thor create shockwaves by simply hitting the ground, and the ground would absorb shock a lot more than a metal shield. So if Thor can make such a shockwave from a ground slam it makes sense that hitting the shield causes a bigger shockwave.
I can see that. I still don't think it was totally Thor, but anything on my end with that is simply conjecture, so we are left with just the feat. I will agree the feat is impressive and has more destructive output than what Superman has done thus far, but I think that is simply because Superman hasn't tried to do anything like that yet, but I am not going to debate on what Supes hasn't done yet. So for now, I will agree that the feat is > damage output wise than what Supes has currently shown. Even though my gut feeling tells me different and that warrior or no he wouldn't put that much energy into an attack on someone he sees as essentially helpless, we don't debate gut feelings.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Don't care, my only interest in this part of the debate is to debunk that the vibranium amped Thor's power.
It's because he couldn't dude. Stop being obtuse. He CLEARLY needed the machine to destroy the island. Are you really going to sit there and say he didn't? Seriously? This is why the feat is a wash. There are too many factors in play to say it was purely Thor's striking power that destroyed the island.
Originally posted by emporerpants
It's because he couldn't dude. Stop being obtuse. He CLEARLY needed the machine to destroy the island. Are you really going to sit there and say he didn't? Seriously? This is why the feat is a wash. There are too many factors in play to say it was purely Thor's striking power that destroyed the island.
If you're going to claim that it amped his power, explain how.
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to claim that it amped his power, explain how.
Sure, as soon as you explain why doubling back the energy would cause the explosion. Why did the energy need to be doubled back? How and why did doubling it back cause the explosion if his strike alone could have done it? Why did they have to overload the machine in order to destroy the island? Can you answer those questions? The feat is a wash. It can't be quantified and there are too many factors in play. You know it, and I know it.
I mean, if you want to argue that blast radius of Thor's actual hit was impressive that is one thing, ok, we can talk about that. But to imply that it was purely Thor's striking power that destroyed the island and that he could have done it in one hit without the machine is...well...quite frankly its astounding that anyone would put forth that idea with a straight face. The fact of the matter is he needed the machine to destroy the island. How much or how little he needed is unknown. Which is what makes the feat a wash.
Originally posted by emporerpants
Sure, as soon as you explain why doubling back the energy would cause the explosion. Why did the energy need to be doubled back? How and why did doubling it back cause the explosion if his strike alone could have done it? Why did they have to overload the machine in order to destroy the island? Can you answer those questions? The feat is a wash. It can't be quantified and there are too many factors in play. You know it, and I know it.
I don't have to explain anything, you made the claim.
Originally posted by emporerpants
It's because he couldn't dude. Stop being obtuse. He CLEARLY needed the machine to destroy the island. Are you really going to sit there and say he didn't? Seriously? This is why the feat is a wash. There are too many factors in play to say it was purely Thor's striking power that destroyed the island.
I don't think he had the power to destroy the entire island, not with just one hit anyway, but I do think he could destroy the surface, or at least a good chunk of it. He already had a similar feat in Jotunheim with lightning and it's not such a stretch to think he can combine lightning with a hammer strike to accomplish something similar if not greater.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think he had the power to destroy the entire island, not with just one hit anyway, but I do think he could destroy the surface, or at least a good chunk of it. He already had a similar feat in Jotunheim with lightning and it's not such a stretch to think he can combine lightning with a hammer strike to accomplish something similar if not greater.
I agree, I think he could destroy a decent portion of it as well. Just not the whole thing, and it is impossible to say how much of the island would be destroyed. Which is why the feat is a wash, as he needed the machine to accomplish what was shown.
Originally posted by emporerpants
I agree, I think he could destroy a decent portion of it as well. Just not the whole thing, and it is impossible to say how much of the island would be destroyed. Which is why the feat is a wash, as he needed the machine to accomplish what was shown.
I don't think any of us ever claimed he destroyed the entire island, just the city on the surface.