Damn, Sheevites've made pretty major gains over the years. Back in the day Valkorion was RotJ Sheev+ yet now he is officially sub-TPM Sheev and Plagueis per forum consensus. Sub-Tenebrous is the next destination, it seems. Me, ILS and Ell will have fun bringing about the age of Tenebrous wank in 2018.
Originally posted by AzrongerAnd despite a sizeable expansion to prop up his abilities yeah, Shitiate's stock is even worse than before KotFE, truly miserable. 🙁
Damn, Sheevites've made pretty major gains over the years. Back in the day Valkorion was RotJ Sheev+ yet now he is officially sub-TPM Sheev and Plagueis per forum consensus. Sub-Tenebrous is the next destination, it seems. Me, ILS and Ell will have fun bringing about the age of Tenebrous wank in 2018.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Nah, for now, I'm restricting you to your original "basic math" assertion so you aren't tempted to shift the goalpost depending on my answer.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
By my count, Valky-boy has decisively won the last three rounds now, weird and unnecessary vote-voiding rules withstanding. So if anything, neither side of fanboys has anything to be grumbling about. 😂Time to get a move on!
^ whether you also vaguely insinuated that the other side of fanboys has done something unkempt does not absolve you of your inability to defend your assertion against the voting system. That you later tried to continue your handwaving of what actually happened by claiming that pointing fingers in the other direction somehow "cancels out" your incoherence is a failure in logic on your part, not an actual argument.
But then what is this "basic math" that I was talking about? There are a lot of analogies we can use, but we can start with just two basic conveyals:
1. Vote-splitting vulnerability means that you can artificially manipulate the results of the polling with candidate dilution - specifically, with dilution of candidates that correlate closely with the support group of one front-runner more than another.
2. That ignoring vote-splitting means that you are trying to encapsulate a relatively continuous metric (people's assessment of characters' abilities) with an arbitrary cut-off (# of first places).
Pretty simple, really.
I highlighted the parts about fanboys on both sides grumbling and my wishes to move on to the next round to indicate that my response to Rockydonovang is consistent with my initial comment. If you agree with that, I'm not sure what you're rolling your eyes for or why you challenged a regional vague bold-quoting and sometimes underlining game champion like myself. 😕I've heard the arguments against vote-splitting from two different posters now. I don't agree with them. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that.
It's not difficult for me to understand that you wouldn't grasp the concept of vote splitting, no.
Originally posted by The EllimistEllimist, my friend, good to see you! ✅
^ whether you also vaguely insinuated that the other side of fanboys has done something unkempt does not absolve you of your inability to defend your assertion against the voting system. That you later tried to continue your hand-waving of what actually happened by claiming that pointing fingers in the other direction somehow "cancels out" your incoherence is a failure in logic on your part, not an actual argument.Whoa. Check the fangs on that one!
First, insinuated that the other side of fanboys have done something unkempt? What are you talking about? 🤨
Second, later tried to continue my handwaving? Again, what are you talking about? You were vaguely rolling your eyes about somethin', so I was under the impression that you were experiencing a brief case ecstasy, epilepsy or were flabbergasted about the comment I made in response to that conscientious Rockydonovang fellow (that I was not here to fuss). If you wanna make the point that I'm too scared and terrified to defend my comments, no need to play the vague quote game. Just say it and we can save ourselves 3-5 posts of pointless back and forth minutia. 😂
I'm not here to fuss, but if you really wanna go forward on this, I'm happy to oblige. 😛
But then what is this "basic math" that I was talking about? There are a lot of analogies we can use . . .Ellimist, my friend, you cannot kid a kidder. One of these days, we need to sit down on have a chat about tactics and subtlety. In the mean time, however, neither point you've raised has anything to do with "basic math." You are equivocating and doing just what I sought to prevent by restricting you to your original comments.
It is no way an issue of basic math because at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that there was no majority reached for the candidates in ranking #3 and ranking #5, hence what triggered the runoff in the first place. The runoff system is simply a means of forcing a majority by voiding all but two candidates, but there is no true majority consensus on who the third and fifth most powerful force wielders are.
When it comes to political elections, the runoff mechanism can be a good thing because it forces the remaining two candidates to act and campaign in the interest of the constituents who didn't vote for them the first time around. In 2016 US president election, upon winning the GOP primary, Donald Trump (who, throughout most of the Republican primary, merely maintained a plurality of support in his base) began vying for the constituents who rejected him in the primary and Hillary Clinton did the same. Both candidates were forced to modify their positions and bring their respective parties together . . . or at least that's what they attempted. 😂
However, for the purposes of a random KMC SW poll, that benefit doesn't exist. Plagueis, the Valkster and KF-Anakin are merely fictional characters and everyone has already made up their minds of who is the most powerful. As such, we do get a majority, but it is merely an artificial majority achieved merely for the sake of having a majority despite a majority not actually believing that any particular character deserves ranks 3 and 5. Under a poll like the one Ant created, permitting split votes makes sense as even if a majority is not reached, the results are still indicative of who people lean most towards as being the 3rd, 4th, 5th of 6th, 7th, 8th, etc most powerful character. tldr? Pluralities are underrated.
That is my position. 😉
As to what you claim is basic math:
Dude, that all sounds like gobbledygook.1. Vote-splitting vulnerability means that you can artificially manipulate the results of the polling with candidate dilution - specifically, with dilution of candidates that correlate closely with the support group of one front-runner more than another.
2. That ignoring vote-splitting means that you are trying to encapsulate a relatively continuous metric (people's assessment of characters' abilities) with an arbitrary cut-off (# of first places).
Pretty simple, really.
1) There is a risk of artificial manipulation no matter what method is used. This a tournament where the votes of every round decide what happen in the following round. Tactical voting as a means of setting the conditions in the next round as a means of making things more favorable for your preferred candidate is always a possibility. There's nothing to be done about it. People can vote however they want unless they're a sock or troll.
2) A runoff with no purpose other than to secure a majority for sake of having a majority is literally an arbitrary cut-off in every sense of the words.
It's not difficult for me to understand that you wouldn't grasp the concept of vote splitting, no.Ellimist, my friend, with the gobbledygook you espoused above in a response to a very simple question, I'm not even convinced you grasp the concept of basic math, never-mind vote splitting. wink3
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Whoa. Check the fangs on that one!
🙄 Has there ever been anyone on these forums with a higher arrogance : aptitude ratio? I mean, besides obvious contenders like quanchi. You're considered a running joke of a debater but come on here to condescendingly lecture us about how we're "fanboys" who can't grokk voting schemes. It's kind of cute but also a little sad, like those bad American Idol auditioneers.
First, insinuated that the other side of fanboys have done something unkempt? What are you talking about? 🤨Second, later tried to continue my handwaving? Again, what are you talking about? You were vaguely rolling your eyes about somethin', so I was under the impression that you were experiencing a brief case ecstasy, epilepsy or were flabbergasted about the comment I made in response to that conscientious Rockydonovang fellow (that I was not here to fuss). If you wanna make the point that I'm too scared and terrified to defend my comments, no need to play the vague quote game. Just say it and we can save ourselves 3-5 posts of pointless back and forth minutia. 😂
I'm not here to fuss, but if you really wanna go forward on this, I'm happy to oblige. 😛
So many sophistic non-responses to get out of having to actually explain why the voting system is weird as you initially claimed. 👆
Ellimist, my friend, you cannot kid a kidder. One of these days, we need to sit down on have a chat about tactics and subtlety.
Kenshin is trying to lecture others about posting style? Kenshin? Ohhh boy this is hilarious.
In the mean time, however, neither point you've raised has anything to do with "basic math." You are equivocating and doing just what I sought to prevent by restricting you to your original comments.
I tried using math concepts in our hilarious discussion about feats and accolades and each time it was incredibly obvious you had no idea what I was talking about. Specifically, I tried to explain to you the difference between Y not being equivalent to X and Y not being an increasing function of X and you just completely blanked out and tried to compensate with incoherent smug sh*tposting. So on that note, I'm going to focus on more verbal arguments.
(And the second point is a math/stat concept)
It is no way an issue of basic math because at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that there was no majority reached for the candidates in ranking #3 and ranking #5, hence what triggered the runoff in the first place. The runoff system is simply a means of forcing a majority by voiding all but two candidates, but there is no true majority consensus on who the third and fifth most powerful force wielders are.
So what? The original purpose of the tournament was to reflect the "average opinion" of KMC. Average =/= majority, and contrary to your counterproposal it almost never means mode either. Not sure where your strawman comes from.
When it comes to political elections, the runoff mechanism can be a good thing because it forces the remaining two candidates to act and campaign in the interest of the constituents who didn't vote for them the first time around. In 2016 US president election, upon winning the GOP primary, Donald Trump (who, throughout most of the Republican primary, merely maintained a plurality of support in his base) began vying for the constituents who rejected him in the primary and Hillary Clinton did the same. Both candidates were forced to modify their positions and bring their respective parties together . . . or at least that's what they attempted. 😂However, for the purposes of a random KMC SW poll, that benefit doesn't exist. Plagueis, the Valkster and KF-Anakin are merely fictional characters and everyone has already made up their minds of who is the most powerful. As such, we do get a majority, but it is merely an artificial majority achieved merely for the sake of having a majority despite a majority not actually believing that any particular character deserves ranks 3 and 5. Under a poll like the one Ant created, permitting split votes makes sense as even if a majority is not reached, the results are still indicative of who people lean most towards as being the 3rd, 4th, 5th of 6th, 7th, 8th, etc most powerful character. tldr? Pluralities are underrated.
Your continuous strawmanning over majorities aside, under your apparently less "weird" system someone with a million second place votes and three first place votes would be valued less than someone with four first place votes and zero second place votes. So out of the entire set of possible characters, a 1st place vote is valued infinitely more than a 2nd place vote which is valued the same (zero) as a third or fourth, etc.
That is my position. 😉As to what you claim is basic math:
Dude, that all sounds like gobbledygook.
1) There is a risk of artificial manipulation no matter what method is used. This a tournament where the votes of every round decide what happen in the following round. Tactical voting as a means of setting the conditions in the next round as a means of making things more favorable for your preferred candidate is always a possibility. There's nothing to be done about it. People can vote however they want unless they're a sock or troll.
That has...nothing to do with what I said. If you have various posters with various internal metrics for deciding characters' power, different metrics are going to have results "clustering" around different sets of characters. That one metric clusters around more groups of characters than another doesn't mean that the latter should be significantly more valued just because your voting system partitions the votes.
That's like asking whether the board likes red or blue more, but the poll splits red into 100 different shades and then declares blue the victor because it has a plurality. 🙄
2) A runoff with no purpose other than to secure a majority for sake of having a majority is literally an arbitrary cut-off in every sense of the words.
Once again, your response has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is a math concept - that when you're comparing two continuous distributions you do not get accurate conclusions about aggregates by using arbitrary binary bucket sorts like "only count 1st places and just pretend 2nd and 100th place are equally valuable".
Ellimist, my friend, with the gobbledygook you espoused above in a response to a very simple question, I'm not even convinced you grasp the concept of basic math, never-mind vote splitting. wink3
Not a single competent person here cares about what you think, lmao.
Originally posted by AncientPower
That the best you've got? I mean really, Jack had better bait.
It's not bait. It's just a fact. You've literally admitted to making up quotes and you've demonstrated in this very thread the absurd amount of investment you have in the standing of a fictional character on a forum you've repeatedly stated you care very little about.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Nah, I've been singlehandedly handing three of your most hardcore brigadiers their asses on Valk debates for the last month
Lmfao you're like one of those American Idol contestants that can't sing for sh*t and everyone laughs at, but gets pissed when people point out they can't sing for sh*t.
Have you read up on the Inverse Square Law yet?