Originally posted by Nephthys
I briefly checked out some versus threads and I saw mention that Ward's combat scores were second to Widows and he and May were pretty much even in their fights. May apparently has more black belts then Widow but Nat wasn't exactly trained in a dojo so meh.Also apparently May whooped a guy who almost killed Hawkeye so that does reflect well on her. Though Widow >> Hawkeye in h2h as well. And Coulson wanted her to work with him on the Avengers Initiative before she requested desk duty. Its unclear If that's just as an agent or as an Avenger though.
I don't recall any mention of black belts or combat scores in AoS regarding Black Widow. It would be nice if we could get the entire quote so we don't take the conversation out of context.
As to the telepath, from what I can recall, she landed all of 1 hit when she "just acted" instead of thought, and was getting whooped and danced around throughout the rest of the fight.
Now, give her a fresh leg and remove the TP, and it would likely be a different story. But let's not pretend like May was getting anything other than her ass kicked by the telepath.
Originally posted by Juk3n
Equalizing stats, Widow is First Team All Skill. Then probably Elektra. DD relies on radar, Danny Rand is weak sauce, no fist means no wins, Dd showed him whats up. I would actually argue for Nobu for the top three.
How are you judging Elektra here? Based on DD s2? Because if you are going to exclude Matt based on senses (even though he has successfully beaten people with abilities tailor-made to counter said senses i.e. the Hand), Black Sky Elektra is excluded as well, as she had not only super senses (as shown when she killed 10 Hand ninjas in total darkness), but superhuman stats as well.
To be fair, the Kree on AoS are kind of weak compared to some we've had in the past. Human level punches hurt them and send them reeling, and they don't even seem to have that much of a strength advantage either. Hell, it took a supposed elite Kree warrior with breaching gear and explosives longer to get through a concrete wall than Luke Cage can with his fists. Or even Elliot Randolph for that matter (the middle-aged Asgardian short-ass).
In contrast, we've had guys like Ronan no-sell hits from Drax and, in return, punch Drax so hard that he flew like 30 feet into an solid metal wall, leaving a huge dent. I have a really tough time seeing Daisy, May, Mack, Coulson etc. bugging Ronan with their hits.
They've basically been given the fodder treatment, which often happens in shows. Whenever a group of villains or bad guys become a main enemy, they get watered down so that the protagonists can fight large numbers of them across a season and still come out on top. Don't get me wrong. Beating them is still a good feat. But not as good as it would have been in the past.
Oh Daisy is definitely a top fighter. She is one of the high-end SHIELD people I mentioned earlier. The LMDs were more impressive than the current Kree are though IMO. I could honestly see Mack taking one of the current Kree in pure H2H, where I can't see him taking an LMD without his shotgun/axe or some kind of environmental tool.
I've been out of touch with AoS but it sounds like Daisy has really moved up in terms of fighting ability.
As for this thread if this were based exclusively on skill and whatnot I think the top 3 skilled fighters in the MCU would be in the following:
1. Matt
2. May
3. Stick
Which I find funny as I think Danny, Natasha, and Gamora should be on the list but at this point are simply lacking in feats against quality opponents with respect to their own skill. Its especially irksome in Black Widow's case after having 5 films worth of stuff yet still nothing that really sticks out...in terms of martial prowess.
Problem for Natasha is she is a relatively small name in the Avengers compared to the others. So, when it comes to getting cool fighting feats and such, it's likely going to go to Cap or one of those characters instead of her. And considering the huge cast for Infinity War, I don't see much changing there.
However, if her solo film, which has been in talks for years now, ever gets going, she might get some better feats.
But yeah, I would say Daisy is easily the most powerful member (overall) of the current SHIELD roster. Some of the best H2H feats in the group at this point, plus straight-up superpowers. I guess Yo-Yo could blitz her if it really came down to it, but that's not really representative of fighting prowess.
Would figure that in possibly Part 1 of one of the biggest movies in the MCu would finally give Black Widow something to do since she hasn't really had a true moment to show off just how good she's supposed to be.
If Daisy really is that good then I could see her being swapped out for May possibly for my list anyway.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
They've basically been given the fodder treatment, which often happens in shows. Whenever a group of villains or bad guys become a main enemy, they get watered down so that the protagonists can fight large numbers of them across a season and still come out on top. Don't get me wrong. Beating them is still a good feat. But not as good as it would have been in the past.
It's the The Law of Inverse Ninja Strength.
Originally posted by NephthysHawkeye was beating BW in Civil War iirc.
I briefly checked out some versus threads and I saw mention that Ward's combat scores were second to Widows and he and May were pretty much even in their fights. May apparently has more black belts then Widow but Nat wasn't exactly trained in a dojo so meh.Also apparently May whooped a guy who almost killed Hawkeye so that does reflect well on her. Though Widow >> Hawkeye in h2h as well. And Coulson wanted her to work with him on the Avengers Initiative before she requested desk duty. Its unclear If that's just as an agent or as an Avenger though.
Not sure why you rate her way above him.