Great scaling btw.
Originally posted by Stigma
[B]Wow, this thread grew quite a lot.So Caedus wins here?
A highly cherry picked account of Darth Caedus might suggest so, if at all. But a broader look at the character really does expose his foibles in the light of day. Compared to Kun, his track record is waining. Let's just take a look at this thread for example. Caedus has appeared in so many sources that Ant has spent years working on a thread presenting the culmination of his showings. Yet his supporters aren't comfortable discussing his own feats. And would haphazardly give him Starkillers instead. Why do you think that is..?
- A fight with Luke
- A blurb accolading him with greater command of the force than Vader
For the first point. A fight with the most notorious jobber in Star Wars isn't reflective of Caedus' own ability. More that it demonstrates Luke's ability to do precisely what he's best at, Job. And while you may think that "jobbing" is a tasteless excuse, we know as a matter of fact that Luke was making allowances in the fight (due to PIS or CIS). This is because of previous showings. The first was where he effortlessly pinned Caedus with the force, despite the latter's vast efforts to escape. The second was a similar display of telekinesis, only this time Caedus had his greater force barrier prepared, but still couldn't protect himself. Both instances are clear proof that Luke could've dispelled his nephew very quickly on any occasion. So we're left with two options. Luke dominating Jacen is an abnormally high-end showing... or Luke conceding any type of injury to Jacen is an abnormally low-end showing. Given his performance history from the founding of the new jedi order onwards, i'd say the latter.
The second point isn't really a point at all. It's a false appeal to authority that can be ignored or debunked depending on one's own interpretation. The first is that blurbs are allowed to contain subjective - or at least over-zelous hypes - used to promote money making material. That would of course, include anything with the mention of "Darth Vader" in it. The second is that blurbs aren't actually part of the continuity, but are rather anecdotes left from the analysis of the stories themselves. I.E - a publisher reading the material and concluding that Darth Caedus is > Vader. The misconception here is that just because such a sstatement is found in canon, it must be an undeniable fact - it doesn't have to be and Leeland Chee agrees.
Originally posted by AncientPower
You won't be laughing soon.
Well done for holding the fort AP. Anyway... to give an analysis on the battle itself - Caedus is a solid tier 8 fighter. While Exar is a high tier eight, bordering on tier nine. Caedus' two main claims to fame are a blurb comparing him to Vader and a vague confrontation with Luke. Woeful ranking indicators. This is due to the invalidity of blurbs and Luke's tendency for low performances. As for his more rounded showings:
- A fight with out of prime Aurra Sing (tier six fighter). It's illicitly implied that Caedus doesn't have the speed to perform certain maneuverers against her.
- A confrontation where Caedus finds himself pinned, dead to rights against a madalorian warrior wearing a mechanical gauntlet (so much for being a above Vader)
- A fight with Kyle Katarn (tier seven) and three Jedi noobites (tier 5-6). They stalemate his bladework, but are left helpless when Jacen makes clever use of TK to slam a speeder into Kyle's back (implying he can't rag doll him conventionally)
- A fight with Mara Jade. He's injured yes, but fails to grip her with the force. This is someone who's own TK is demonstrably weak, yet still resists Caedus' force grapple.
- A fight with small potatoes Jaina. He's injured beyond belief, yes, and dying. But this should somewhat be mitigated by his pain amplifying powers and of course, the fact that Jaina has been one-shotted by Boba Fett.
As for Kun. His "rounded" showing :
He is unable / doesn't have enough time to penetrate the greater force barrier of a tree. But that tree is drawing from the core of a planet as well as the sounding life energy of it's flora & fauna. I do think that Jacen would be similarly helpless (mara jade could stonewall his force powers).
His other showings:
- Goes into the senate, stuns probably around 100,000 people, maintains the stun while fighting and winning against Vodo, a 500 year old dedicated weapons master (a most likely tier 8).
- Kills Odan Urr, the head of the Jedi faction at the time instantly with a single force attack (a most likely tier 8)
- Is so powerful that instead of sending a strong individual to fight him or assembling a strike team, the entire order confront him at once using a single force attack to banish him in unison.
Taking in mind that the TOTJ era is probably, on average, way more combat oriented and contains more powerful individuals than the PT (bar yoda, anakin and mace). This is thanks to 1) having more jedi in total 2) having less restrictions on jedi recruitment 3) Having more dedicated weapons masters on average 4) having more experienced combat masters 5) Allowing for the interbreeding of Jedi conceiving offspring that are almost always powerful in the force.
As for a direct feat companion that has been mentioned before.
Kun smashes a thick wall of beskarr with his raw might
Caedus uses a clever to get around it's strength.
With all the above considered, Kun can probably just kill Jacen in a single force attack, or curb stomp him with his greater force augmentation and more sophisticated lightsaber style compared to Jacen's classic one.
Originally posted by Shadilaay
Well done for holding the fort AP. Anyway... to give an analysis on the battle itself - Caedus is a solid tier 8 fighter. While Exar is a high tier eight, bordering on tier nine. Caedus' two main claims to fame are a blurb comparing him to Vader and a vague confrontation with Luke. Woeful ranking indicators. This is due to the invalidity of blurbs and Luke's tendency for low performances. As for his more rounded showings:- A fight with out of prime Aurra Sing (tier six fighter). It's illicitly implied that Caedus doesn't have the speed to perform certain maneuverers against her.
- A confrontation where Caedus finds himself pinned, dead to rights against a madalorian warrior wearing a mechanical gauntlet (so much for being a above Vader)
- A fight with Kyle Katarn (tier seven) and three Jedi noobites (tier 5-6). They stalemate his bladework, but are left helpless when Jacen makes clever use of TK to slam a speeder into Kyle's back (implying he can't rag doll him conventionally)
- A fight with Mara Jade. He's injured yes, but fails to grip her with the force. This is someone who's own TK is demonstrably weak, yet still resists Caedus' force grapple.
- A fight with small potatoes Jaina. He's injured beyond belief, yes, and dying. But this should somewhat be mitigated by his pain amplifying powers and of course, the fact that Jaina has been one-shotted by Boba Fett.
As for Kun. His "rounded" showing :
He is unable / doesn't have enough time to penetrate the greater force barrier of a tree. But that tree is drawing from the core of a planet as well as the sounding life energy of it's flora & fauna. I do think that Jacen would be similarly helpless (mara jade could stonewall his force powers).
His other showings:
- Goes into the senate, stuns probably around 100,000 people, maintains the stun while fighting and winning against Vodo, a 500 year old dedicated weapons master (a most likely tier 8).
- Kills Odan Urr, the head of the Jedi faction at the time instantly with a single force attack (a most likely tier 8)
- Is so powerful that instead of sending a strong individual to fight him or assembling a strike team, the entire order confront him at once using a single force attack to banish him in unison.
Taking in mind that the TOTJ era is probably, on average, way more combat oriented and contains more powerful individuals than the PT (bar yoda, anakin and mace). This is thanks to 1) having more jedi in total 2) having less restrictions on jedi recruitment 3) Having more dedicated weapons masters on average 4) having more experienced combat masters 5) Allowing for the interbreeding of Jedi conceiving offspring that are almost always powerful in the force.
As for a direct feat companion that has been mentioned before.
Kun smashes a thick wall of beskarr with his raw might
Caedus uses a clever to get around it's strength.With all the above considered, Kun can probably just kill Jacen in a single force attack, or curb stomp him with his greater force augmentation and more sophisticated lightsaber style compared to Jacen's classic one.
In other words: Jacen is dead myth.
Originally posted by MythLord
You speak ominously, as if something is actually going to change...
IKR? Lol, look at the most powerful characters rankings/polls, all its faves are getting shitted on. Kun hasn't even been an option yet, and Valky boy is outside the top 5.
Sheevites and the PT Brigade are running the show, but yeah... good job "holding the fort" LOL.