Canon Difficulties #1: A Critique of the "subjectivity of the EU"

*George Lucas Quotes on the Expanded Universe*

Star Log Quote has been mentioned already, I won't use that again.

------------------------------------------------------------

*"And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it.* The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, *the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."*

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008

---------------------------

”The novels and comic books are other authors' interpretations of my creation. Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don't have the time to read them all. *They're not my vision of what Star Wars is.”*

- George Lucas 2004

-------------------
"I like to refer to the Interview with Lucas in the Special Editions.When asked about the novels and what not, he simply says:

”Those are another author's interpretation of what I've created, *and not to be taken seriously, as far as what is really going on in the Star Wars world.”*
~ George Lucas

--------------------------

"Q: What do you think of the Expanded Universe of books?

*A: "The books are in a different universe. * I've not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn't read any of them and I blocked out certain periods [they couldn't touch where the real story happens]."**

- George Lucas 2003

---------------------------------

*"Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing], He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead."*
- George Lucas 2008

---------------------------

"TVGuide: Yet novelists have written "Star Wars" sequels using the same characters and extending their stories.

George Lucas: Oh, sure. They're done outside my little universe."

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, November 2001 - TV Guide interview

-----------------------

George Lucas says there has never been any war between the Jedi and the Sith in his Star Wars canon -

An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace:

Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.” Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2000 years ago. Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and there wasn’t anything left.
"But anyway, George Lucas says there has never been any war between the Jedi and the Sith in his Star Wars canon - An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I:

Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.” Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2000 years ago. Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and there wasn’t anything left.
"But anyway, there’s a whole matrix of backstory that has never really come out. It’s really just history that I gathered up along the way."

"It’s all based on backstories that I’d written setting up what the Jedi were, setting up what the Sith were, setting up what the Empire was, setting up what the Republic was, and how it all fit together."

"I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part."

------------------------

*"I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars."*
- George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 1999 - Film Night interview

------------
"So if we'll never see it onscreen, what does happen to Princess Leia and Han Solo after they fall in love?

*”Han and Leia probably did get married,” Lucas conceded. ”They settled down. She became a senator, and they got a nice little house with a white picket fence. Han Solo is out there cooking burgers on the grill. Is that a movie? I don't think so.”*
- George Lucas, Flannelled One, May *2005* - MTV interview

-------------

*"This is Star Wars, and I don't make a distinction between [The Clone Wars] series and the films."*
~ George Lucas, SciFiNow, October 2011

---------------

Q: Can you quote any good story other than the movies?

*A: No, I don't think so. (laughs)."*
- George Lucas

-----------------------------------

"Q: in that vein, is it possible we'll see more Star Wars TV product?

A: Because I"m retiring from this part of my creative life, I'm open to more TV Product. but not more feature films, the story is complete. [and any other story wouldn't be my philosophy and views,] *the books are not the same philosophy as the movies."*

George Lucas 2003

---------------------------

*"The movies are Gospel, and everything else is Gossip."*
~ George Lucas
---------------------

"The question selected from The Furry Conflict poll was: How much does the Expanded Universe influence the movies?

As I asked him, Lucas leaned back a moment and said to me “Very little.” When he first had agreed to let people write Expanded Universe books, he had said “I’m not gonna read ‘em” and it was a “different universe” and that he wanted to keep away from the time period of his saga. He jokingly complained, however, that now when he writes a script he has to look through an encyclopedia to make sure that a name he comes up with doesn’t come too close to something in the EU.

He later commented that the future of Star Wars may lie in other venues outside of feature film."

- "Marc Xavier", November 2003, "The Furry Conflict and the Great ‘Beard‘ of the Galaxy"
(report based on a Q&A session with George Lucas which occurred at USC on 11-19-03)

*Dave Filoni on the Expanded Universe*
[Just a reminder - "Dave Filoni is better equipped to relay Lucas’ true feelings about the EU." ~ Leland Chee]

*"The terminology of "Expanded Universe" was a careful one; it expanded on the world created in the core stories, but was never officially meant to be Star Wars canon, according to the Maker himself, George Lucas."* ~ Dave Filoni 2017
--------------------

*"There is no more clear illustration of the difference between the Expanded Universe and the Star Wars created by George Lucas. The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know… We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."*
~ Dave Filoni 2012

--------------------

*"..at the end of the day there is a difference between what you see in the Star Wars films and TV series and what you see in those books."*
~ Dave Filoni 2012

-------------------

How early on did you know that the show [Clone Wars series] would be considered canon?

"Everything that I’ve worked on at Lucasfilm has been considered canon. Working on Clone Wars, it was always canon. I never really worry about it. I always figured that most things that are done in a cinematic form, whether it be television or movies, are the only things that George considered canon because it was the stuff that he helped produce. So,it made sense that this would be, as well."

~ Dave Filoni Interview, 2014

-------------------

*"This is Star Wars, and I don't make a distinction between [The Clone Wars] series and the films."*
~ George Lucas, SciFiNow, October 2011

----------------

“For me and my training here at Lucasfilm, working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it’s stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they’re a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him. *That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon..."*
~ Dave Filoni 2017

----------------

*"In the same interview, *Dave Filoni said that George Lucas told him, that the movies and The Clone Wars television series, were the only thing Lucas considered canon."*
Wikipedia

----------------------------------

"That’s one of the biggest debates in Star Wars, what counts? *The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon."*
~ Dave Filoni, SW:TCW 2008
----------------------

*"The TV series is exactly like the movies, exactly. I mean, you can see it in the clip. It’s basically just the movies only with cartoon characters. It’s basically a dramatic series, there’s a lot of action, a bit of humor."*
~ George Lucas, 2008 Interview about the Clone Wars series.

---------------------

*"The importance of The Clone Wars that cannot be understated is that it was the last huge expansion of the Star Wars universe that came directly from George Lucas."*
~ Pablo Hidalgo

---------------------

"I always think of the research you speak of as what I knew about the EU before I took this job. As I stated above, working directly with George changes the way you see the EU and everything in it."

~ Dave Filoni 2008

-------------

*"This series [Clone Wars Series] at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of Star Wars as he sees it.* I think if anything there was a period where *Henry [Gilroy] and I* had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas’ Star Wars, and tell the Star Wars story his way. *We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon *after we found out the ideas were only EU."*
~ Dave Filoni 2008

-----------------------------------------

Question from Reporter at Comic con International- Are Sabine's teeth filed down, because in the EU men have pointy teeth and the women are filed down because they're enslaved so are her teeth filed down?

"That's not something that exists in the canon.George and I never once talked about filed down teeth or anything like that."
~ Dave Filoni 2014

*Pablo Hidalgo Quotes on the Expanded Universe*
*"In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing [EU]. He wasn't at all interested in connecting."*
~ Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group] 2016

------------------

*Pablo Hidalgo on Lucas and the EU being separate Universes.*

*"He [Lucas] only considers his movies and TV projects as his universe, and told the Clone Wars writers to only worry about those."*
-Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

----------------------

*"Canon is only what's on the screen. - Episodes I-VI, TCW and what's to come."*
Pablo Hidalgo, 2013 -

----------

"From Issue 77 Of Insider, Using Dark Empire & The Thrawn Trilogy As Examples.
*"So so episodes beyond Return of the Jedi exist? Nothing beyond possinle story points and ideas, certainly not fleshed out story treatments or scripts. Fans often wonder if Dark Empire or the Thrawn Trilogy were based off those notes or are meant to be Episodes VII, VIII, IX. - That's not the case.
Those works are the creation of their respective authors with the guidance of editors at Lucas Licensing. They are not, nor ever were, meant to be George Lucas' definitive vision of what happens next"*
~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2004

------------------

"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] *Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”*

~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, 2012

-------------

Question - "My question is, what did George's treatments for 7 look like? I would love to see if they fit the EU.

Answer [Pablo Hidalgo]- *"They did not. For instance, there was no Jaina, Jacen, or Anakin."* ~ 2017

-----------

*"There was no Ben Skywalker in George's Universe. He came from the NJO team."*
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

--------------

*"Question from Today, but I thought this was pretty well known. George Lucas never considered Jacen, Jaina, or Mara [Jade] as part of his universe."*
~ Pablo Hidalgo May 2016

--------------

Comment - "I remember George specifically saying Luke never married or had a child, I think."

Response - *"That was his [Lucas] take, especially in reaction to Mara Jade. Jedi vows and all that."*
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2019

----------

Comment - "Shouldn't the Jedi council have seen how happy Ki-Adi-Mundi was and realize the no attachment rule was stupid?"

Response [Pablo Hidalgo] - *"Ki-Adi-Mundi does not have a bunch of wives. That was an unfortunate idea in the EU. - - - He is not married at all. And he is a Jedi Master on the Council."* ~ 2016

-----------

"Star Wars: The Clone Wars is the biggest education on how George Lucas saw his Universe. Over 44 hours of his storytelling compared to the 13 hours or so he spent in live action."

~ Pablo Hidalgo 2018

-------------

About EUists being wrong -

[Pablo Hidalgo *"George's starting point for 7 had no Jaina, Jacen, Anakin and Chewie never died. So yeah."*

[Reply] - "Could we please send this to every EU purist we know?"

[Other replyer] "They wont care."

[First Replyer] "They will after what Hidalgo just said after this."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - *"No, they won't. You can't correct the internet.The info's out there. They've made up their minds."*

-----------------

Also about EUist purists - 2016

[Orginal commentor] - "Some facebook site just posted a "Bring back George

Lucas" petition....wrong on so many levels. With Ep. lll & TCW he went out on

a high."

[Pablo Hidalgo] *"Why would he ever come back to these folks? All that love and goodwill from the internet.=]"*

[Second commentator] - "I remember the EU fans in the early-mid 00's trashed George endlessly, and now they act like he's their savior."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - *"And yet we are following his model of regarding the EU vs. his canon. Weird."*

[Second commentator] - "Well they get the false impression that George was a big EU fan and stood by it."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - *"Where do they get this stuff? =] It's like his last 3 movies and six seasons of TCW didn't happen!"*

------------------------

[Pablo Hidalgo]- *"Fast forward to 2012, when we hear George is looking to make SW movies again, I though I thought 'I wonder what next Mon Calamari's gonna be.'"*

*"And it turns out, the Mon Calamari this time was huge swaths of the EU. There was no Jacen, no Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived. Not suprising, but there it was."*
2016

[Again, I had so many links for this, you can just cut and paste quotes into browser to verify]

"They’re there to be enjoyed as unofficial Legends. But, as Zahn also points out, the Expanded Universe wasn’t really ever official regardless of what the fans thought."
~ Timothy Zahn, 2017

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2014, Disney declared the Expanded Universe was no longer canon. It became ‘Legends’. What do you think of this, seeing all of your work suddenly become non-canon?

Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning (have I stressed that strongly enough?), “Only the Movies are Canon.” Sure, it was disappointing. And I hope the EU books aren’t all taken out of print, because many of them are outstanding explorations of all that Star Wars means to the fans. And fun to read, besides!

~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura]
Interview: April 2018

----------------------

“As far as I know he hasn’t read any of my novels. From what I’ve heard Lucas is a visual man, he likes the comic books for the visual aspect. Frankly I don’t think that he has time to read so I am not offended.”
-Timothy Zahn, Author for the EU, The book report interview November, 1997

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That means Zahn’s books won’t be directly adapted, but the author says that was always the case: “The books were always just the books.”

“It could be an entirely new storyline, but if he picks and chooses bits and pieces from the expanded universe, we’d all be thrilled to death.”

~ Timothy Zahn

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Zahn: As far as I know, George Lucas himself is not involved. He has a liaison group that deals with the book people, the game people, etc. They do the day-to-day work. Occasionally, he will be asked a question and will give an answer."

"I did meet Lucas once for a few minutes."

~ Timothy Zahn

------------------------------------------------------------

Once I heard that George Lucas was asked to comment on the many interpretations of Star Wars in book, comic, record, radio and TV spin-offs that grew from his original creation. 'The films are gospel,' he said, 'all the rest are gossip.' I like that."

- Andy Mangels, EU Author, Dec. 1995
-----------------------------

"In the canon debate, it is important to notice that LucasFilm and Lucas are different entities. The only canon source of Star Wars are the radio plays, the movie novels and the movies themselves - in Lucas' mind, nothing else exists, and no authorized LucasFilm novel will restrict his creativity in any way.""

Steven Sansweet, EU Author - Director of Content Management and head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm Ltd.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"It's not something we can really worry about, so we don't. Lots of people have been working on lots of SW extrapolations for the last twenty years, in good faith. There were never any promises from George Lucas or Lucasfilm regarding the acceptance of their work into some wider canon."

~ Peet Janes, Dark Horse Comics Editor,1998
-----------------------------------

"Steven Sansweet, an Author of the EU said this at a convention in Australia: "In the canon debate, it is important to notice that LucasFilm and Lucas are different entities. The only canon source of Star Wars are the radio plays, the movie novels and the movies themselves - in Lucas' mind, nothing else exists, and no authorized LucasFilm novel will restrict his creativity in any way.""
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"[Steven Sansweet] was asked specifically if any of the characters like Admiral Thrawn and so on would make appearances in AoTC or the movie thereafter, and *he responded quite clearly that that all the EU material is ”taking place in a separate universe”. [...] there were quite a few nasty mumbles from the audience when he (Sansweet) said what he said."

Steven Sansweet, EU Author - Director of Content Management and head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm
-----------------------------------
"Q: Did George Lucas intend for Boba Fett to die in the sarlacc, despite what others may say or print?

A: Yes, in George's view -- as far as the films go -- the baddest bounty hunter in the Galaxy met his match in the Great Pit of Carkoon where --unfortunately for Mr. Fett -- the ghastly sarlacc made its home.

However, Lucas also approved Fett's comeback in the expanded universe. And of course, by going back in time with the prequels, the Star Wars creator has brought Boba Fett back to life himself, albeit at a much younger age."

- Steve Sansweet, LFL/Fan Relations, December 2002

----------------------------------------------------------------

In these early drafts, the planet was called Had Abbadon. The name Coruscant came from author Timothy Zahn for his 1991 novel, Heir to the Empire. It's actually a real word that means ”glittering” or ”giving forth flashes of light.” When it came time to name the city-planet for Episode I, after considering several other names, Lucas decided to go with the already established Coruscant."

- Steve Sansweet, LFL/Fan Relations, June 2003 -
-------------------

"It is unfortunate that [EU author Karen Traviss is] moving on because [of] her opinion that canon is being changed. I guess the big problem is the assumption that her work is canon in the first place. After working with George on The Clone Wars series I know there are elements of her work that are not in line with his vision of Star Wars, and in my mind only George Lucas’ Star Wars is canon. Everything else is Expanded Universe. In my opinion, George's work on Star Wars, whether he created it before or after other writers, trumps all because he created Star Wars in the first place, period."

~ Henry Gilroy, The Clone Wars series Head Writer/ EU Author [Comics] 2008
------------------------

Dark Empire Introduction - Kevin J. Anderson -

*"When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels [EU] remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these are our sequels, not George Lucas's."*

*"If Lucasfilm ever makes films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas's own creations, probably with no connect to anything we have written."*

But in the meantime, enjoy these graphic stories, read the novels of Timothy Zahn, Kathy Tyers, Kenneth Flynt, Dave Wolverton, and myself.[Kevin J. Anderson]"

------------------------------

"That said, I think George has always felt that the comics were an “alternate Star Wars universe” from the films. I don’t think he ever saw the comics as canon — although he did use them as a resource for ideas and images."

Tom Veitch, EU Author, Dark Empire Trilogy 2016

Sue R was initially in the dark about Hoffman and Chee's lies, she thought they did get Lucas' permission to make it one universe and canon. She found out tho, and she wouldn't take part in the deceit.

-----------------------
"George knows more about Star Wars than we do. He doesn't see the Expanded Universe as ”his” Star Wars, but as ”ours.” I think this has been mentioned previously, maybe in other places, but it's not new info, as far as I remember."*

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor),2004
----------------------------------------------

"Within the issue of Starlog magazine with the War of the Worlds cover is an interview article with George Lucas. He stated something which he had said before, which is that he doesn't follow the SW EU, he doesn't read the books or comics. He also said that when they started doing all this (which is allowing other storytellers to tell their own SW tales), he had decreed that the Star Wars Universe would be split into two just like Star Trek (I don't know nuts about Star Trek, so don't ask me about that), one would be his own universe (the six episode movie saga), the other would be a whole other universe (the Expanded Universe). He continued to say that the EU tries as much as possible to tie in to his own universe, but sometimes they move into a whole other line of their own."

~ Confirmed by Sue Rostoni,Lucas Licensing Publishing, 2005
-----------------------------------------------------

George doesn't give us much information about his future movies until he's making them. In general, George does not take the EU into account when he's making his movies.

It's our job to manipulate the EU into fitting George's future movies, which often contradict stuff we've done. Not our ONLY job, of course."

~ Sue Rostoni, LucasBooks/LL Managing Editor, 2003
-------------------------

"George doesn't see the overall story ideas or concepts. If there is a sensitive area, or if we are developing backstory for a character he's created or mentioned in an interview, we can query him to get more information, his approval, or whatever. And yes, we always query him if we're doing something drastic to a film character. I believe he does read the concepts for the games though."

- Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), Jun 2004,
---------------------------------------------------------

As far as ”legitimate continuation of the films” -- If George had continued making SW films past Return of the Jedi, I don't think they would have reflected what the SW authors have written. The books, comics, etc., are a ”legitimate continuation” of the Star Wars saga as we [Lucas Licensing] define it. "

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), 2005

"Jacen and Jaina were never part of George's Story. They were Tim's invention.
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

-----------------

"There was no Jacen. No Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived.
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016
[Lucas Story Treatments for the Sequel he wrote in 2011 and sold Disney]

-----------------

"Canon is only what's on the screen. - Episodes I-VI, TCW and what's to come."
Pablo Hidalgo, 2013

--------------------

Question - "My question is, what did George's treatments for 7 look like? I
would love to see if they fit the EU.

Answer [Pablo Hidalgo 2017]- "They did not. For instance, there was no Jaina,
Jacen, or Anakin."

--------------------

"The Son falling to the Darkside was always in the mix,the movies just ended up having it as an already established fact."

~ Pablo Hidalgo - The Tweets of San Francisco: A QM Production.
------------------

"There was no Ben Skywalker in George's Universe. He came from the NJO team."
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

---------------------

Question - "How many students were at Luke's'academy'? Was ot even an 'academy'?

Answer [Pablo Hidalgo]
- "We'd likely never use that term. That's very 'EU', not very George. It'd be a temple. As for numbers, can't say now."
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

------------------------

"Question from Today, but I thought this was pretty well known. George Lucas
never considered Jacen, Jaina, or Mara [Jade] as part of his universe."

~ Pablo Hidalgo May 2016

--------------------------------

Commentator Question - "One last thing; why did Roffman keep saying that stuff

[EU] was canon even after 2008?

---

[Howard Roffman, the President of Lucas Licensing and the one that came up
with the idea to make an Expanded Universe program, Roffman admitted it fully later on that that wasn't the case, that they wanted it to be 'one universe' but George Lucas wouldn't have it, no one else but him could say what was or wasn't Star Wars in canon.

Lucas Licensing was unable to get Lucas cooperation and Lucas didn't much care if they had to change things because his stories were canon and they had to acknowledge them fully even in their universe. If they had to retcon or even throw whole stories away, Lucas, for the most part didn't care.]
---

Pablo Hidalgo Answer - "I don't know why he'd say that."

"I do think they wanted to think George would consider their storytelling."

~ 2016
---------------------------------------------

Comment - "I remember George specifically saying Luke never married or had a
child, I think."

Response - "That was his [Lucas] take, especially in reaction to Mara Jade.
Jedi vows and all that." ~ Pablo Hidalgo 2019
---------------------

[Pablo Hidalgo]"George's starting point for 7 had no Jaina, Jacen, Anakin and

Chewie never died. So yeah."

[Reply] - "Could we please send this to every EU purist we know?"

[Other replyer] "They wont care."

[First Replyer] "They will after what Hidalgo just said after this."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - "No, they won't. You can't correct the internet.The info's

out there. They've made up their minds."

----------------------------

2016

[Orginal commentor] - "Some facebook site just posted a "Bring back George

Lucas" petition....wrong on so many levels. With Ep. lll & TCW he went out on

a high."

[Pablo Hidalgo]"Why would he ever come back to these folks? All that love and

goodwill from the internet.=]"

[Second commentator] - "I remember the EU fans in the early-mid 00's trashed

George endlessly, and now they act like he's their savior."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - "And yet we are following his model of regarding the EU vs.

his canon. Weird."

[Second commentator] - "Well they get the false impression that George was a

big EU fan and stood by it."

[Pablo Hidalgo] - "Where do they get this stuff? =] It's like his last 3

movies and six seasons of TCW didn't happen!"
-------------------------------

"Fast forward to 2012, when we hear George is looking to make SW movies again,

I thought 'I wonder what next Mon Calamari's gonna be.'"
"And it turns out, the Mon Calamari this time was huge swaths of the EU. There was no Jacen, no Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived. "Not suprising, but there it was"

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2016, speaking on Lucas' ST treatments he wrote in 2011
--------------------------------

"In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing
[EU]. He wasn't at all interested in connecting."

~ Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group] 2016

Good stuff👆

"Good stuff" is an understatement. I nearly got teary-eyed.

This is the kind of discussion these forums are for!

Audience #1: You got a rapid fan base, it seems like nowadays the way Disney handles Star Wars canon, very well controlled, very tight, but back in the ’90s when it’s a blueprint of books and games and other things, how did … Do you internally manage —

"That was one of my mandates, when I began the spin off publishing program it was a sacrosanct rule that everything had to relate to each other, be consistent with each other and be consistent with the movies, 'which were canon.'

We were pretty religious about doing that, our biggest problem was a guy named George Lucas, because he didn't buy into the spin off fiction and the game program and all the 'alternate universe' we were creating."

We wanted it to be one universe,we felt strongly that that's what it needed to be, but George as the filmmaker didn't want to be beholden to somebody else's creative vision.

So we would have very interesting skirmishes because we had a bunch of stuff that became, for the fans, pretty much canon [head-canon] about what happened after Return of the Jedi, what different places in the galaxy were called, lots of different things and if he was proposing to do something in the prequels that contradicted that we would have long debates which usually ended at least after the first session with "I don't care this is what I'm doing", and maybe after the 4th or 5th session sometimes "Alright 'maybe' we can change it this way"

Now that everything is controlled by one central committee [Lucasfilm Story Group] we can have canon that applies to everything.

Messing with a Classic — Howard Roffman, Lucasfilm, 2017 interview.
I'm not allowed to include links it says, just go to you tube and put in the above title "Messing with a Classic" "Howard Roffman" etc.

Everything controlled by the Story Group my left foot. Y'all can't even get your **** together and have a ton of contradictions/retcons and whatever already.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Everything controlled by the Story Group my left foot. Y'all can't even get your **** together and have a ton of contradictions/retcons and whatever already.

They're not quite as bad as how things use to be in the EU, but they are doing some very nice song and dancing around shit, no doubt.

EU/Disney, same shit really. They even use the same ideas. Palpatine clones, misrepresentation of characters, terrible story telling, etc. IMO.

At least Disney had the decency not to make Luke a darksider who literally bent the knee to the man his father gave his life to protect him from and than mirror's Vader own words "What is thy bidding, my master?"

Same thing, ruins Vader's sacrifice, belittles the prophecy, and gives the finger to Lucas' vision. The EU and Disney are exactly the same in that regard.
I don't want either one of them.

I personally don't really consider a great deal of the retcons experienced within the EU intentional. George Lucas did what he wanted, and rightly so, his stuff is always right and anything that conflicted with it, even pre-existing was than rendered wrong. Word of God.

"G-canon was George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public)."

"Chee does point out that there is one higher authority than the Holocron: Lucas himself, who is free to alter continuity at will."

George Lucas made the stories in the Clone Wars series [2008] from season 2 onward, not Dave Filoni or Henry Gilroy. He told them what the stories were going to be and they fleshed out his ideas into proper form, Lucas was involved in every facet of production in TCW. He loved it. EUists like to try to blame Filoni for the continuity issues they experienced because of TCW because they know what it means if it came from Lucas. And they were right, that is what it meant.

"Continuity is for wimps."
~ George Lucas 2008

.........

"In discussions directly with George, he was very adamant about Jango not being Mandolorian, which is the entire reason that scene existed that moment. To have that specificity that Jango was not Mandolorian at least not to Mandolorians."

~ Dave Filoni, 2019

.........

These are some quotes from a 2008 interview with Dave Filoni and Henry Gilroy as they are talking about what it's like working directly under and with George Lucas. You can see from these that Lucas meant everything he said.

TFN: So what is the deal with General Grievous’ origin? There’s the first version with the shuttle crash where Dooku upgraded him and there’s the new one with him choosing to upgrade himself. Why the different versions?

"George envisioned something different than what was created for the EU and Dave and I jumped at the chance to explore that."

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author,TFN Interview 2008

--------------------------

TFN: 'It’s well know by now that authors and writers of other Star Wars projects are often given creative ‘boundaries.’ Assuming this is the case for the new Clone Wars series, were there any surprises to you in terms of what wasn’t off-limits?'

"George gave Dave and I a lot of freedom and he didn’t want us to be limited by what the EU had established."

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author, TFN Interview 2008

_________________________

TFN: How does your writing process work, and what role does George Lucas play in it?

On the first 13 episodes I wrote premises with Dave that went to George for approval, he made his notes, then we went through outline and script phase and George would see the scripts when Dave and I and Catherine were happy with them, he’d make notes and the scripts would go final.

On most shows, that would be the end of the writing process, but on Clone Wars, that’s about ‘the middle’ of the writing process, because once the episodes get into animatic \ story reel in editorial, Dave and George go through them, rewriting, adding and subtracting, etc...

Halfway through the first season, George was so excited with what we were doing, he came in one day with an outline and handed it to me, “Turn that into a script.” It was a story called ‘Count Dooku Captured.” From then on, George got into the writing \ scripting process in a big way. On season two, ALL of the story ideas came from George, except a couple that were originally written in season one by Dave and I (& Dini). I think season three is the same way.

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author, TFN Interview 2008
............

"Writing process? Oh right, well it’s pretty much what Henry described above."

~ Dave Filoni TFN Interview 2008
-------------------------

And more generally speaking, did you pay attention to what have been done regarding the Clone Wars (books, comics) in order to create the stories for this series?

"I always tried to pay respect to the book and comics that chronicled the war, but George didn't want us to be limited in any way. Still, using characters that came from the comics, like Asajj Ventress were a blast to work with and we had a lot of fun developing them further on screen."

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author, 2008

-----------------------------

Clone Wars 10th aviverary special.

Henry Gilroy had pitched a story he called “Warriors of Beskar” in which the Jedi were trying to stop Dooku from acquiring beskar armor. His plan was to melt down and use the molten metal to create impervious battle droids.
Elements of this story were used later on, but when it originally came across George Lucas, he commented that Mandalorians were pacifists.

--------------------------

"When I was making Clone Wars, I always knew we were doing the 'canon bomb,' or the 'continuity bomb,' and I'd go into the office and be like: 'wait until you hear what the Mandalorians are like according to George.' And I would know a year or more in advance what that was going to do.

~ Dave Filoni

........................
"George Lucas is involved from the initial story idea until the final sound mix. It's George's show. My job is to execute his vision. George wanted a process where he could be involved creatively at every step."

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author, 2008 Star Wars Insider 103

-----
"We're not making television here, we're making cinema."

~ George Lucas regarding The Clone Wars series

---------------------
"George is the Alpha and the Omega, and is involved in the story from beginning to end. On The Clone Wars, that means from the initial story idea until the final sound mix. I knew from the moment I got the job that The Clone Wars was going to George's show. My job was to execute his vision and I have always tried my best to do that."

As time went on George became more involved and wrote more stories and just about every story now comes from 'The Maker Himself'."

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW/ EU Author, 2008 Star Wars Insider 103
....

I wish I could share the whole article. I uploaded it but it won't let me post links here for some reason. But, you can download Star Wars Insider fully, there is a site that hosts all the PDFs, that's where I got this information from, so you should be able to track it down fairly easy.

The url has the words hungry-ewok.ru.
Or just put in Star Wars Insider PDFs, that's how I eventually found my way to that site.

Star Wars Insider 103

---------------------------

If it isn't Lucas, it isn't Star Wars. But, to each their own. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
This one's mine.~~~~~~~ > Make mine Lucas Canon =]