Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Azronger made the image, I believe. It was uploaded to his ComicVine.
Yup.
Btw, Ell, change your avi and sig to something more thematically relevant to this debate. At the moment you're just copying Urs, and the smooth, sexy vibe you get from Jaina's face and the bright green and turquoise colors clash with the tone of the posts badly.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
(continued from above)[b]New: Dooku Scaling
You didn't think Kar Vastor was the only way to put Vader above TPM Mace, was it?
Vader is clearly more powerful than Dooku:
Sedriss.
Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebels' Pinnacle Base.
-- Handbook 3: Dark Empire
You might wonder if this is only referring to disciples who were alive at a particular point in time, but it's actually referring to Sedriss's power after Vader's death, so if it references Vader it must also reference Dooku. We know this because Palpatine considers Sedriss to be "a moderate force sensitive, a capable errand boy, not the stuff of a true apprentice" (Jedi vs. Sith), which is hardly language that implies Sedriss at that point was on the level of, say, Jerec or even Mara Jade. So the quote has to be referring to Sedriss after Palpatine amps his power to the point where he can defeat Luke Skywalker.
Ergo, Vader > Dooku.
Minor Masterpiece
Here's what Sidious has to say about Vader:
Of all the monsters I have created, I still regard Darth Vader as something of a minor masterpiece. No, he was not an entirely alchemical creation, but he was my monster nevertheless. Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time. Yes, he ultimately turned against his Master, as monsters sometimes do, but that was my fault, not his. Given the opportunity to create Vader again, I would, and with zeal.
-- Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force
Now, to obtain Vader, Sidious had to get rid of Dooku. He clearly doesn't seem to regret doing that, which he obviously would have if RotJ Vader were weaker Dooku. You could say that Sidious was just gloating in the sadism and irony of turning the Chosen One, but while that may have amused him, Palpatine is obviously more interested in obtaining a powerful apprentice, given that he does try to replace Vader with Galen and later Luke. Nor can you say that Vader had advantages other than power - Dooku was more loyal, more experienced, more politically skilled and connected, and had less emotional baggage. You might say that Dooku's old age was a limiting factor, but that's implausible - firstly, because Sidious may have had or soon had the ability to reverse aging (he suggests in the Plagueis novel that he can already do this with midichlorian manipulation - he likely can't do it to himself because the dark side is literally killing it), and even otherwise people in Star Wars live really, really long:
"Isn't medicine miraculous today?" Caedus asked. No one answered, of course. It was a rhetorical question. "A being is more likely to die of a meteor strike than of old age or disease."
So yeah, if Dooku > RotJ Vader, Sidious would have regretted getting rid of him. And given that Dooku is an equal match for TCW Windu:
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.
- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
It is clear that:
Vader > Dooku > TPM Mace > Revan.
Summary
Let's summarize the state of things so far:
1. Vader can tank Starkiller's lightning, which directly powers a cannon to destroy a shielded imperial star destroyer in one hit, something that would require continent-vaping energies to perform.
2. Vader can tank and walk through RotJ Sidious's lightning, while Revan gets devastated and overwhelmed by novel Vitiate's.
3. Vader can tank the point blank suicide blast of a Oneness Galen Marek, who even before oneness was in a state such that he was doing better against Palpatine than anyone to that point ever had.
4. Vader is far more powerful than TCW Mace Windu, who is in turn far more powerful than Revan per concrete accolades.
5. Vader is more powerful than Count Dooku, who is more powerful than Revan per concrete accolades.
6. Vader scales from the ability to bring down imperial star destroyers, bust massive orbital superstructures larger than said star destroyers, one-shot thousands of droids through uncharged TK, and power several hundred meter long ships' engines, while Revan scales from...the ability to kill a few thousand beast riders.
7. Muur's apparent superiority to 19 BBY Vader is both, by your own admission, based on inaccurate musings and really the product of Muur's talisman being able to summon lots of monsters.
8. Multiple sources confirm that Sidious views Vader as a legitimate threat by RotJ.
9. Multiple sources confirm that Vader's sheer power rivals Yoda's by RotJ (though this does not necessarily mean he would defeat Yoda in a fight).
So to answer my question, no, Revan cannot hurt Vader. To do so he would either have to release an attack more powerful than Oneness Galen Marek who was more powerful than Yoda, unleash lightning beyond Palpatine's and beyond the defenses of a star destroyer's shields, or tank Vader's attacks and defeat him in a saber duel (which will be funny to see you argue).
So answer your question, Vader can hurt Revan by overwhelming him with star destroyer dropping TK, and by being more powerful than him through multiple lines of scaling.
Vader therefore has a clear superiority over Revan along every line of evidence, from feats to accolades to character opinions.
End. [/B]