Coincidental reasons why the PT brigade is so strong

I'm not making direct arguments in support of any era's characters, nor am I analyzing forum social dynamics (which also play a huge role), but rather I'm talking about ways that Legends has been configured which favors the later eras for perhaps unintended reasons. This, again, isn't a direct argument for or against the arguments' legitimacy.

Backwards compatible accolades: An accolade calling Sidious the most powerful Sith of all time can transfer backwards, while one saying that about Vitiate wouldn't apply forwards to Sidious unless if it actually references the future, which almost never happens.

More Jedi / Sith parity: Whereas ancient-era stories often focus on an ancient sith who is so far beyond everyone else at the time, the PT-era features Sidious, who has multiple "most powerful Sith ever" accolades but also has several competitors such as Yoda and Anakin. This drags up the Jedi and Sith around Sidious whereas someone like Exar Kun is weaker than Sidious and yet has less competition, perhaps because the story is centered around him whereas the film-era isn't just about Palpatine.

More sources + a forum preference for high-balling: Modern eras have a lot more published material, which means that you'd expect to get more high-end feats for characters. You might expect more low-end ones as well, but the forum tends to focus on the higher-end ones, which I think is justifiable for reasons I won't get into here.

More text-based sources + better prose writers: Most of the best feats in Legends come from novels and sourcebooks where demonstrations of power that would be difficult to sell visually like singularity manipulation can be acceptably described. The PT-era has more of these, along with better prose writers like Stover and Luceno.

Reverse scaling from Sidious vs. Valkorion: since many like myself put Palpatine above Valkorion, we must also put people like Exar Kun far lower relative to Sidious than what the forum used to generally do.

Thoughts?

Also the fact that virtually every dipshit with a name is "one of teh bestest duelists evah"

Having more sources helps immensely.

If Stover wrote Darth Nihilus. I'd read it.

@ All good points, Ell.

Bonus reason: We are cooler 🙂

Lol

Originally posted by ares834
Having more sources helps immensely.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Lol

This is a very good thread.

Something I've thought about personally but perhaps didn't have the testicular fortitude to articulate in front of a forum of dissenting readers. From an in universe perspective, the PT era Jedi (with exception to Anakin) being somehow the strongest, fails on every level considering :

- The severe recruitment restrictions post-russan reformation

- The interbreeding of Jedi being ruled against

- The overall number of Jedi having "dwindled" (probably because of the two reasons above) meaning you're less likely to find outliers

- The lack of combative focus

- The fact that battlefield experience tends to spike potential growth better than training in a temple does, for reference : Obi Wan saw monumental gains in the three year period of the Clone Wars comparative to the ten year gap in between ATOC and TPM

I have to some how trust that those claiming the PT era to be the combative prime of Jedi, are taking factors like the above into consideration. Even when many of the sources claiming that the Movie era Jedi as a collective, or an individual from that time is "the best in history" aren't considering older time lines within the EU, such as:

- George Lucas (Who's now non-canon opinion was personally ignorant of the EU)

- The Mysteries of Jedi ( a childrens book written soley about the PT)

- Star Wars Fact File 11 (the 2002 publication that called Mace and Yoda the most powerful Jedi to walk the temple)

- The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48 (another source book that wrote soley about movie era content, and claimed Dooku was only eclipsed by Yoda and Mace in skill)

This is why i think source book accolades in particular are asinine and cheapen debate.

Also, better arguments, Ell.

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, easier to make arguments, Ell.

fixed.

In the Old Republic, war was a constant.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
In the Old Republic, war was a constant.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Originally posted by Nephthys
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Quoting someone or you wrote that yourself?

Warhammer 40k.

The Chosen One bullshit aside, it doesn't make sense that the PT Jedi would be the strongest since, in addition to the factors JMANGO mentioned, it only had about a millennium to rebuild, and Jedi of Darth Bane's time were a pitiful lot.

Logically the Order should be at its strongest during Exar Kun's time, considering it had more than 20000 years of straight, uninterrupted growth and an infallible record of victory against the Dark side.

They won against the Rakatan Infinte Empire(when they were still the Je'daii), they won in the ensuing "Force Wars" on Tython, they won against Xendor, they won the Hundred Year Darkness against Ajunta Pall& co, they won the Great Hyperspace War, and eventually they beat Exar Kun.

It's only after Exar Kun was defeated that the Order started weakening and being periodically pushed to the edge of extinction by the Sith.

I see no reason why Yoda or Mace or anyone other than Anakin should have an inherently stronger potential than say, Odan-Urr or Nomi Sunrider, much less access to more wisdom and better teachings.

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, better arguments, Ell.

👆

And it makes thematic sense. We're told the time frame of the PT/OT is the most important time frame in the history of the Jedi and the galaxy. The Chosen One prophecy, the Mortis Anchorites, Sidious, the highest concentration of top tier badasses in the entire continuity, etc.

No one cares about the other shit, which are relative footnotes of minor importance.

Thematic sense only really applies to the Sith, tbh. Maybe Anakin. Not so much the rest.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Thematic sense only really applies to the Sith, tbh. Maybe Anakin. Not so much the rest.

Nah. So one of the ideas in the prequels is that the Jedi have "strayed" from their true ideals by being so involved and invested in warfare. Not only would them being at their peak martially help justify how Sidious was able to defeat them (through strategy and deception rather than morons like Failkorion and Exar Kun), it also reinforces that dramatic irony. And, in terms of bonus, highlights how Luke was able to succeed where his predecessors failed and instigated the ultimate destruction of the Sith by tossing his weapon aside.

Pretty sure it's about the Jedi straying from their way by becoming involved in politics as wella s completely beholden to the Senate. The problem with that reasoning is that the Jedi are less involved with warfare than they've ever been at this point, aside from conscripting Jedi Padawans and making them field commanders. While I'd agree that in the terms of what Lucas wanted, this may be true, although that wouldn't make sense given Luke is a thing, but it most certainly doesn't really make sense in terms of the greater EU/Legends.