Superman Prime & Ion Hal Vs Jiren & Toppo

Who wins here

Either Jiren or Toppo lol-stomps.

Don't you mean Ion Kyle?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Don't you mean Ion Kyle?

Yeah, Hal was Parallax.

And if he means the Ion entity, Sodan Yat actually seemed to DEPOWER when he got the upgrade.

Yes. Ion Kyle

Then this is a non fight.

Classic Ion was essentially the Warlogog. He could alter time/space at will.

👆

I think Ion is too much here.

Yeah. It was a cool idea, though.

Jiren is beyond time and space as said on panel and this was him when he wasn't even fully powered up. He stomps this and I can see any of these two resisting being erased.

Hit has a completely different level of time mastery then Ion.

Being able to beat a limited area time stop in no way proves you can resist time manipulation on a universal scale (Or higher.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Hit has a completely different level of time mastery then Ion.

Being able to beat a limited area time stop in no way proves you can resist time manipulation on a universal scale (Or higher.)

Lol at limited area time stop being different than a wider area time stop.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at limited area time stop being different than a wider area time stop.

Aside from the fact affecting a single person certainly IS different then affecting a planet (Or a universe), I wasn't talking about time stop only.

Spectre all but admitted Ion could pull on the strings of time any way he sees fit. No side effects, no paradox's, he could shape and mold all of time as you would clay.

It's a difference in scope and options, as was said in the IG thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Jiren is beyond time and space as said on panel and this was him when he wasn't even fully powered up. He stomps this and I can see any of these two resisting being erased.

Jiren is not beyond time and space, Jiren is beyond what Hit was capable of.

Didnt Whis say time and space? I would think he would say Hit's abilities if that is all it was. Just saying.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Didnt Whis say time and space? I would think he would say Hit's abilities if that is all it was. Just saying.

If he was beyond space, he'd be impossible to ring out.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Didnt Whis say time and space? I would think he would say Hit's abilities if that is all it was. Just saying.

How can anyone be beyond time if he is getting old and dies of age. That means he is still conditioned to time. No matter what Vados said, Jiren is not beyond time.
If he is absolutely beyond time and space, that would mean he would be completely immune when Zeno erased univerese and timeline in Black saga, that would have no affect on Jiren which wouldn't be the case. That would mean anything, any power in DB multiverse wouldn't have power over him, if he is beyond space. Jiren is conditioned being and he is conditioned to time and space. He has power over it to some degree (on a higher level than Hit does).

Hit doesn't have absolute control and power in anything he does.

Im not arguing either way. Just making a comment about what was said and what was done on panel.

Vados (not Whis) claims that Jiren possesses power that transcends time itself, and Supreme Kai posits that time itself means nothing against Jiren’s strength.

It should be noted that Jiren only overpowered *Hit's* control over time(Goku has done the same, btw.) That certainly doesn't give Jiren blanket immunity to any/all temporal attacks across the board, though... Enough with the no-limits fallacies, ffs.

Assuming we're using the 'classic' version of Kyle/Ion here(the one who merged with the CPB), he ends Jiren and Toppo with a gesture.