Still haven't read your blog btw. Going to go with Yoda in a decent fight. Reasons - because genuinely competing with Sidious is better than strained comparisons with Luke. The former of which serves as a direct index of power, the latter of which doesn't. Reborn Krayt doesn't prove himself worthy of Yoda in Legacy either.
edit : this is factoring in the terrain advantage
Originally posted by ILS
What's strained about it?
The last time we debated this, your cardinal reason for Luke and Krayt's parity was the difference in how they tolerated injury to their essence, which reflects as physical pain. This is not a reliable index of power. Their polar Force alignments prevent it from being a passable comparison.
Originally posted by JMANGO
The last time we debated this, your cardinal reason for Luke and Krayt's parity was the difference in how they tolerated injury to their essence, which reflects as physical pain. This is not a reliable index of power. Their polar Force alignments prevent it from being a passable comparison.
The biggest problem is that there was an indeterminate amount of time (implied to be a really long amount) where Luke is struggling physically with Abeloth and Krayt isn't (he is suffering from draining Luke, but it's stated that this is equal to Luke's damage from it, so it cancels out). This would obviously affect Luke's ability to defend against Abeloth's attacks, so that they suffered equal damages doesn't really suggest parity.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The biggest problem is that there was an indeterminate amount of time (implied to be a really long amount) where Luke is struggling physically with Abeloth and Krayt isn't (he is suffering from draining Luke, but it's stated that this is equal to Luke's damage from it, so it cancels out). This would obviously affect Luke's ability to defend against Abeloth's attacks, so that they suffered equal damages doesn't really suggest parity.
Sort of like the Revan/Vitiate DS Nexus argument.
Originally posted by JMANGOIt's not just a reflection of pain tolerance... hence why you should get reading.
The last time we debated this, your cardinal reason for Luke and Krayt's parity was the difference in how they tolerated injury to their essence, which reflects as physical pain. This is not a reliable index of power. Their polar Force alignments prevent it from being a passable comparison.
The only caveat to Krayt's performance overall is that he drained Luke, at first quite hard, then much more mildly, then briefly hard again, while also screaming in pain from draining Abeloth. Other than that, they suffered the same injuries, and Krayt did more than his fair share of damage to Abeloth by ripping her essence out from the inside and draining her.
As for Krayt suffering "just as much damage as Luke" - it can be both true that he suffered just as much damage and more. It's hardly a balanced equation to begin with seeing as Luke being drained and Krayt absorbing the Essence of a deity that makes the water steam and makes him scream in pain are two totally different types of damage. When Luke realises he is "not being betrayed" it's because Krayt receives no apparent benefit from draining Abeloth other than sustaining massive pain and injury, and draining Luke is a countermeasure.
We can also glean how impactful Krayt is on the fight from how others compared to Abeloth at the time. Ben Skywalker in Oneness and Vestara Khai drawing on the Font of Power barely budged an avatar of Abeloth with their most powerful attacks. Krayt and Luke killed her physical form in tandem, in a battle where they sustained mostly identical injuries.
If the importance of all of that manages to become lost on anyone, I'm not able to help them.
Originally posted by The EllimistClearly you aren't reading the same fight as everyone else, because in the moment you are describing, Luke has Abeloth in a choke hold from behind while Krayt has his arm buried in her chest in front of her. Hence:
The biggest problem is that there was an indeterminate amount of time (implied to be a really long amount) where Luke is struggling physically with Abeloth and Krayt isn't (he is suffering from draining Luke, but it's stated that this is equal to Luke's damage from it, so it cancels out). This would obviously affect Luke's ability to defend against Abeloth's attacks, so that they suffered equal damages doesn't really suggest parity.
"She began to roll her head around, gnashing and spitting, trying to sink her fangs into Luke's arm or the stranger's-anything she could reach."
[...]
" The stranger was tumbling with them, his hand still buried in Abeloth's chest, now wailing in agony as gleaming black Force energy steamed from his wounds."
For this indeterminate amount of time she was trying to attack both of them. Also, Krayt wasn't suffering from draining Luke (???) he was suffering from draining Abeloth. Luke was a counterbalance.
The thing I find most intriguing is that Abeloth's main attack is forcing her tentacles, which is basically just her Essence, into her opponents, much like how Krayt and Luke strike her. So Krayt deliberately draining her essence inside his body, and inside his wounds, means that he had to do the equivalent of absorbing her tentacles. This is also reflected in how a little bit of Abeloth remained stuck in Luke's chest-wound in Crucible.
So yeah, it actually seems like Krayt was the hero of the day. Luke had to deal with some mild draining while Krayt risked killing himself by absorbing Abeloth into his own being. Both were being attacked by her at the same time.
Originally posted by ILS
We can also glean how impactful Krayt is on the fight from how others compared to Abeloth at the time. Ben Skywalker in Oneness and Vestara Khai drawing on the Font of Power barely budged an avatar of Abeloth with their most powerful attacks. Krayt and Luke killed her physical form in tandem, in a battle where they sustained mostly identical injuries.
Now Abeloth also had a couple of avatars in the real world, so Luke and Krayt's feat doesn't quite match the Ones', but they did fight the bulk of her Force essence and prevailed.
The fight was beyond lightsaber forms or Force techniques, it was a battle of pure will and intrinsic power - Force Essence. Luke and Krayt are the closest mortals ever got the the power of the Ones.
Palpatine and Yoda just don't measure up.