Dune (2021)

Originally posted by Arachnid1

Spoiler:
Does it matter if the chosen one is created by chance or by countless generations of specific breeding? He's still has the insane prescience abilities exactly outlined out by the Bene Gesserit (abilities inherent only to the one male that unlocks their prescience abilities as predicted), and he still has access to both male and female genetic memory as the Kwisatz Haderach. He's still leading the fremen to paradise in their jihad/holy war, and he's an still offworlder exactly as they predicted. He's still the only one capable of resolving the plot, and he fits almost every prophecy outlined (the ONE place he didn't was him outright rejecting the Bene Gesserit and refusing to be their tool; he still fit the fremen prophecy just fine though). Does it matter if the force that made him is more scientific than fantastical? It's no less a turn off either way.

You seem to be mixing the Kwisatz Haderach and the Freman's prophet. They are two separate "prophecies" that Paul happens, or at least people believe him, to be.

Spoiler:
And I would say that it matters. The BG has a purpose for the KH and it's one that Paul, arguably, does not fulfill.

As for the Fremen messiah, the Mahdi, it's not a real prophecy. And Paul certainly is not their Mahdi even if it was, if anything his actions ultimately start them down the road to destruction.

Originally posted by Arachnid1

Spoiler:
Sure, you could say the ending is "epic" with Paul just massacring the opposition riding on sandworms with his army of fremen just because of the scale of it, but that doesn't make it engaging. There was no emotional pay off. There was no struggle. It was too clean. He just won, like he did all book, and it was a VERY quick, decisive, and overwhelming win.

That's why I loved it.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Maybe it's a rose tinted glasses thing with you, but the book isn't as perfect as you make it out to be.

Definitely not. I read the book for the first time only a few years ago. And I've never called it perfect. Taste is ultimately subjective and, like I stated earlier, it's not a book for everyone.

Originally posted by ares834
You seem to be mixing the Kwisatz Haderach and the Freman's prophet. They are two separate "prophecies" that Paul happens, or at least people believe him, to be.

Spoiler:
And I would say that it matters. The BG has a purpose for the KH and it's one that Paul, arguably, does not fulfill.

As for the Fremen messiah, the Mahdi, it's not a real prophecy. And Paul certainly is not their Mahdi even if it was, if anything his actions ultimately start them down the road to destruction.

That's why I loved it.

Definitely not. I read the book for the first time only a few years ago. And I've never called it perfect. Taste is ultimately subjective and, like I stated earlier, it's not a book for everyone.

Spoiler:
I'm not mixing them (I'm referring to the BG prophecy being the one he rejected since he ultimately decided not to be a tool of the Sisterhood despite fitting everything else right up until that). As for him being the Mahdi, I'd consider it a prophecy. The concept and word is taken from real world Islam, though it's adjusted in the book Fremen religion to herald to a leader that will guide the Fremen to paradise via their hyped up holy war. He's even outlined to be an offworlder who's the offspring of a Bene Gesserit. I could take your word for it just leading them to ruin in the following books since I haven't read those yet (not sure I will since a lot of fans seem to think they only get worse), but so far they are definitely on the upswing. He fit that prophecy in every way in the first book at least, which I wasn't a fan of. It's good that that changes in the following books.

But yeah, we could agree to disagree on it. It's not my intention to trash something you're into in a thread dedicate to its movie. I really liked a lot if it. There was just a lot that didn't stick with me. I'm hoping Villeneuve will give me some new perspective on the story that will help me better appreciate what the author was going for.

Originally posted by Mindset
His dead, listless, expression.

Wiki his son.

Leto II >>> Paul

Anyway, I'm reading that this movie is actually just the first half of the first book. I wonder where it will end. I don't remember any climax worthy event halfway through the book.

Originally posted by ares834
YouTube video

Love the designs for everything.

looks pretty good

Originally posted by Arachnid1

Spoiler:
As for him being the Mahdi, I'd consider it a prophecy. The concept and word is taken from real world Islam, though it's adjusted in the book Fremen religion to herald to a leader that will guide the Fremen to paradise via their hyped up holy war. He's even outlined to be an offworlder who's the offspring of a Bene Gesserit.

But it's not a prophecy. Sure, Herbert heavily based it on Islam, but in the story it was crafted millennia ago by the BG. They created it in such a way that they could easily use it to manipulate the Fremen by appearing to accomplish the various signs of the prophecy. Which is exactly what Paul and Jessica did. It's all fake and is nothing more than a tool for manipulation.

Originally posted by ares834
But it's not a prophecy. Sure, Herbert heavily based it on Islam, but in the story it was crafted millennia ago by the BG. They created it in such a way that they could easily use it to manipulate the Fremen by appearing to accomplish the various signs of the prophecy. Which is exactly what Paul and Jessica did. It's all fake and is nothing more than a tool for manipulation.

I don't want to sound like I'm just being difficult, but it doesn't really change what makes the "chosen one" narrative so annoying to me (which I might be doing a shit job of explaining). That's what I was trying to get in my first post with the "does the origins of the chosen one really matter?" question (same reasoning, though in that case I was relating it more to the BG prophecy of his abilities than the Fremen messiah role). Fake or not, he's still heralded/prophesied by an entire culture. He still conforms to all the little annoying tropes of being the chosen one, even if it's ultimately under false pretenses. He's still the most powerful and talented person in the universe (as far as I know in the first book, anyways), and he's still fulfilling that (fake) messiah role. What makes the chosen one narrative so boring to me is how you ultimately know he's going to succeed regardless (and the fact that he did so effortlessly is salt in the wound). He's just destined to succeed. It's a little better knowing he only really fit the role because of prescience ability (which is a different force than destiny, but the same end result), but even that ability is problematic for the same reason chosen one narratives are. I see what you mean about it being a deconstruction of the trope since he fits only because of the prescience, but the fact that he fits at all is the problem (as opposed to the nature of the prophecy).

So Denis Villeneuve really did split the first book into two parts, but isn't filming the second one until this one is out and reaction is gathered?

I know Warners managed this strategy to success (mostly) with Stephen King's IT, but I think they were lucky to get away with it the first time. Knowing this story, I wonder if there is a good enough center point to end it, where the new audience will come back for part 2.

Originally posted by playa1258
First Trailer tomorrow:https://twitter.com/dunemovie/status/1303362649057406976?s=21

ohhh that looks awesome!

Originally posted by roughrider
So Denis Villeneuve really did split the first book into two parts, but isn't filming the second one until this one is out and reaction is gathered?

I know Warners managed this strategy to success (mostly) with Stephen King's IT, but I think they were lucky to get away with it the first time. Knowing this story, I wonder if there is a good enough center point to end it, where the new audience will come back for part 2.

I'm pretty psyched for this after seeing the trailer. Decided to read the book again, cause shit, it's been 15-20 years since I read it...

Originally posted by roughrider
So Denis Villeneuve really did split the first book into two parts, but isn't filming the second one until this one is out and reaction is gathered?

I know Warners managed this strategy to success (mostly) with Stephen King's IT, but I think they were lucky to get away with it the first time. Knowing this story, I wonder if there is a good enough center point to end it, where the new audience will come back for part 2.

I mean maybe if the second movie were coming out like a month later.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, there isn't.

I mean maybe if the second movie were coming out like a month later.

Yes, like the LOTR films, where you know the next movie was filmed and will come out a year later.

I remember when IT came out and I got word that the movie was only about the kids, that another film would be made later, so that prepped me. If anyone in the audience was disappointed, it didn't add up to much as the film was a box office smash. Still, it was only at the end of the movie when the title IT: Chapter One came up. LOTR didn't do that, putting the subtitle for the movie right up front so people wouldn't be surprised.

Maybe the second Dune film will get titled Dune Messiah, after the second book and include some elements of that story.

This film will probably end with Pauls fight with Jamis and accepting into the Fremen.

Originally posted by roughrider
Yes, like the LOTR films, where you know the next movie was filmed and will come out a year later.

Hm.. that could be bad for business if people aren't aware that there's much more to the story. But I think it's kind of assumed these days that there's supposed to be sequels.

I just hope the Star Wars losers show up to this in large numbers, despite there not being any fu#king light sabers. I also fear that some Star Wars fatigue might hurt this film a little bit, too. But it was of course Star Wars that owes a lot to Dune.

There were people complaining about John Carter being nothing but desert. Dune is going to be like that, too. It won't have the swashbuckling appeal that Star Wars had; I doubt we will even see other House systems in the movie, or even go there other than House Harkonnen.

I really hope they go at least a bit into the Landsraad and the politics of the other great houses. Even if it's just a scene with the Landsraad council having no problem with the Emperor targeting House Atreides for annihilation.

Why didn't they ever attempt an animated version of DUNE?

loved the addition of pink floyd in the trailer. obvious message to the extreme nerd base (myself). it is indeed finally happening... presumably

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Agree 100%, my guess is when he tells Stilgar he is Mauddib... maybe.

I think it will end shortly after Jessica takes the water of life. there's an important couple of loose ends in that scene to set up for part 2

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I think it will end shortly after Jessica takes the water of life. there's an important couple of loose ends in that scene to set up for part 2

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Why didn't they ever attempt an animated version of DUNE?