Team MCU vs Team Fox
Team MCU:
Captain America - IW gear.
Winter Soldier - TWS highway fight gear.
Spiderman - Standard suit. Training wheels off.
Black Panther - Civil War suit.
Falcon - Standard gear.
Team Fox:
Deadpool - Standard gear.
Cable - Standard gear.
Beast - Combined feats.
Nightcrawler - Combined feats.
Negasonic Teenage Warhead - A sunny disposition.
Fight takes place on airborne Sokovia.
Teams start 50 feet apart.
Last team standing wins.
Who takes it?
You know, this thread actually made me interested in a non-bloodlusted Nightcrawler vs Cap thread. Cap has a pretty good strength (though NC is no slouch here) and durability edge but Nightcrawler is much faster, and has a powerset would make him an absolute b*tch to tag.
Anyway, Caps team has the strongest (Spidey) and most durable (BP; They may not be able to hurt him) members but Fox has the biggest powerhouse (NTW; if she blasts anyone besides maybe BP, they're done; she is a glass cannon though) and a teleporter (Nightcrawler could just drop them from a mile up). I've run through multiple scenarios but I can't see Fox dealing with BP before someone KOs NTW. WS, Spidey, and Falcon all have ranged capabilities so someone should be able to tag her with something pretty quickly. After that, Fox's biggest threat is Cable and his insane concussion/force rifle, which he may be able to get some mileage out of before someone takes him out. Still, that rifle wouldn't take out Spidey or BP. BPs durability and NTWs lack of durability are my deciding factors. Also, anyone Spidey webs up is done. Nightcrawler wouldn't be able to teleport away since he'd be anchored and no one else can break out besides possibly Beast. On top of all that, Cap is the only tactician/leader here so he could prioritize targets and give his team the right combo of orders to steer them into the win. I'd give it to Caps team.
EDIT: Just saw this is CW BP. That suit didn't have the feats to suggest it could help him survive being dropped by Nightcrawler so a good drop would take him out. In fact, Nightcrawler could do that to anyone on the enemy team besides Spidey. Unfortunately, that wouldn't happen. NC isn't bloodlusted and he's too much of a pacifist to kill. A self imposed no-kill rule is a huge problem despite his powerset since that restricts him to punches and kicks. He would be more of a factor if he used his power set to it's full capabilities like his dad. Caps team still wins, but I wanted to correct that line about NC.
Originally posted by Estacado
Negasonic could nuke team 1 DP 1 style.
Yeah but she can also easily get sniped by WS or Falcon. The keyplayer here is Nightcrawler. If he plays this smart he can net the win for Foxmen. Maybe DP can give him a knife then he just goes around knifing everyone he can, or he teleports people up in the sky and drops them.
It's not a sure shot though, a lot of the MCU team have incredible reflexes and are stronger than Nightcrawler. If he's not careful anyone of them could snap his neck or something.
If Nightcrawler gets taken out then I'm thinking MCU team wins but still has a good fight. The MCU team is just stronger and better h2h combatants, plus they have airsupport. Cable's gadgets make a fight out of it but Nightcrawler is really the X-men's trump card.
I think this all depends on how NS and NW play it out. Team MCUs biggest asset is Spidey but if he can be neutralized either by NS or being BFR then teams Fox has a real chance. BPs suit is a real issue though I'm not sure how it compares to the Infinity Wars/BP version. We did see that from those a significant enough blast can knock him back or KO him(Grenade Launcher/Thanos Punch) so Cables gun might have a chance although we dont know how much. SM is by far the biggest issue as he has range and and great physical advantage against anyone on the field but he could also attract the most attention.
Originally posted by FrothByte
It's not a sure shot though, a lot of the MCU team have incredible reflexes and are stronger than Nightcrawler. If he's not careful anyone of them could snap his neck or something.
Kurt's speed, strength and reflexes are no joke either though. Don't see anyone just snapping his neck:
People always focus on how fast and agile he is here, but not a lot of people pick up on how many of the people he hits or kicks are sent flying across the room.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Also, anyone Spidey webs up is done. Nightcrawler wouldn't be able to teleport away since he'd be anchored and no one else can break out besides possibly Beast.
Why do you say this? Multiple people, including 3 of his own team members in this thread, have gotten out of this version of Spiderman's webbing before. Something sharp enough, like one of Hawkeye's arrows, for example, seem perfectly capable of cutting through it. And Wade can stab his katana through several inches of friggin' concrete.
I mean it is obviously still a very useful thing to have, but it's not like mobile Alcatraz or something.
I will add though that Training Wheels Off means Peter does get Karen's input as well. She didn't really feature in IW, so people seem to have forgotten about her.
Also, between Redwing and all the features on Spidey's suit (Spider drone, surveillance mode etc.), Team MCU should have more of a tactical/information edge here, in case things spread out more during the battle.
On a random note, Tony Stark also built Redwing. And I have to say, I prefer Redwing to its official designation:
Stark Drone MK82 922 V 80Z V2 Prototype Unit V6
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Kurt's speed, strength and reflexes are no joke either though. Don't see anyone just snapping his neck:People always focus on how fast and agile he is here, but not a lot of people pick up on how many of the people he hits or kicks are sent flying across the room.
I have to disagree, nothing there shows me he has any sort of super strength, at least not above the average human action hero. He sends people flying with kicks where he puts his full weight behind, especially when he uses teleportation to attack from weird angles. His ability to send people flying isn't really that much different from fighters like Black Widow or Yuri Boyka or IP Man.
To be fair, I didn't mean to imply that the MCU fighters can easily snap his neck. He's quite tough and they're not that strong.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I have to disagree, nothing there shows me he has any sort of super strength, at least not above the average human action hero. He sends people flying with kicks where he puts his full weight behind, especially when he uses teleportation to attack from weird angles. His ability to send people flying isn't really that much different from fighters like Black Widow or Yuri Boyka or IP Man.To be fair, I didn't mean to imply that the MCU fighters can [b]easily
snap his neck. He's quite tough and they're not that strong. [/B]
Yes, we will have to disagree. Because the average action hero does not hit that hard. The guys who do tend to be towards the upper end, and would generally be superhuman by real life standards themselves. When has Black Widow ever done anything remotely like what Kurt does to some of those guys? Please post examples.
If Nightcrawler can neutralize WS and Falcon quick, fast, and in a hurry, Team Fox has enough power, strength, and skill to handle Cap, BP, and even Spidey, though it'll be a battle.
If Team MCU maintains air superiority, their tech advantages with Red Wing and Spidey's suit's capabilities, and WS sniping and using suppressive fire, they win.
Biggest factor - as stated multiple times in this thread - in Kurt. NC is ten times over the most mobile and quickest to cover distance here, but if he is in Alan Cumming don't-harm-anyone-ever-again mode, I don't know how well he'll fair. White House dagger-armed teleporting people into the atmosphere NC could kill Falcon no problem and the super soldiers with a bit more effort. Reflexes and all.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, we will have to disagree. Because the [B]average action hero does not hit that hard. The guys who do tend to be towards the upper end, and would generally be superhuman by real life standards themselves. When has Black Widow ever done anything remotely like what Kurt does to some of those guys? Please post examples. [/B]
Ok. Pick a specific timestamp on that Nightcrawler video you posted that you want me to find an equivalent to and I'll try to match it. I will say though that the average action hero does many things that would have made them superhuman by real life standards.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok. Pick a specific timestamp on that Nightcrawler video you posted that you want me to find an equivalent to and I'll try to match it. I will say though that the average action hero does many things that would have made them superhuman by real life standards.
Even though there are more, I will just take two of the easiest to spot. 1:42, when he kicks a guy in the head so hard the person goes flying airborne offscreen (and he doesn't even get the full rotation of the kick in before teleporting to the next target). Or 1:47, where a summersault kick under the one guy's chin sends them sailing through the air, across the room. And just to be clear, feats like Black Widow throwing someone like 3 feet with a Judo flip are not comparable.
And? It doesn't mean they hit that hard on average. John McClane is superhumanly tough by real life standards. Doesn't mean he is as strong as Luke Hobbs, who would be superhumanly strong by real life standards.
Which brings me to another point, which is it doesn't detract from the ones who can do those things. We don't dismiss someone's feats of strength, speed etc. just because maybe some other action movie heroes have done similar. That just means that those guys are also on that level. Because even if you want to write it off as "Action Hero" standards, it doesn't change the fact that they can and have still done things that would be considered superhuman by real life standards.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerI more mean if he's liberal with its use. Hawkeye got Cap out of his restraints but would Cap have gotten out if Spidey completely cocooned him to the ground? Would Falcon and WS get free if Spidey hadn't just webbed WS metal fist? The webs did have enough tensile strength to almost hold the ferry in Homecoming together after all. He should be able to immobilize them if he lays it on, and that's the best answer his team has for Nightcrawler's ability.
Why do you say this? Multiple people, including 3 of his own team members in this thread, have gotten out of this version of Spiderman's webbing before. Something sharp enough, like one of Hawkeye's arrows, for example, seem perfectly capable of cutting through it. And Wade can stab his katana through several inches of friggin' concrete.I mean it is obviously still a very useful thing to have, but it's not like mobile Alcatraz or something.
I will add though that Training Wheels Off means Peter does get Karen's input as well. She didn't really feature in IW, so people seem to have forgotten about her.
Good to know about Karen. I wasn't factoring her in but she should be able to help Pete form some strats.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerAgreed. Kurt definitely has some manner of super strength. He may not be Spidey, BP, or Cap level, but he's no slouch. I'm also pretty sure Kurt is the second most agile combatant here and possibly has the best reflexes.
Yes, we will have to disagree. Because the [B]average action hero does not hit that hard. The guys who do tend to be towards the upper end, and would generally be superhuman by real life standards themselves. When has Black Widow ever done anything remotely like what Kurt does to some of those guys? Please post examples. [/B]
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Even though there are more, I will just take two of the easiest to spot. 1:42, when he kicks a guy in the head so hard the person goes flying airborne offscreen (and he doesn't even get the full rotation of the kick in before teleporting to the next target). Or 1:47, where a summersault kick under the one guy's chin sends them sailing through the air, across the room. And just to be clear, feats like Black Widow throwing someone like 3 feet with a Judo flip are not comparable.And? It doesn't mean they hit that hard on average. John McClane is superhumanly tough by real life standards. Doesn't mean he is as strong as Luke Hobbs, who would be superhumanly strong by real life standards.
Which brings me to another point, which is it doesn't detract from the ones who can do those things. We don't dismiss someone's feats of strength, speed etc. just because maybe some other action movie heroes have done similar. That just means that those guys are also on that level. Because even if you want to write it off as "Action Hero" standards, it doesn't change the fact that they can and have still done things that would be considered superhuman by real life standards.
I watched those two timestamps you provided... and have to admit I was mistaken. I retract my statement. I still don't think Kurt is as strong as the super soldiers but he does indeed have super strength.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I more mean if he's liberal with its use. Hawkeye got Cap out of his restraints but would Cap have gotten out if Spidey completely cocooned him to the ground? Would Falcon and WS get free if Spidey hadn't just webbed WS metal fist? The webs did have enough tensile strength to almost hold the ferry in Homecoming together after all. He should be able to immobilize them if he lays it on, and that's the best answer his team has for Nightcrawler's ability.
Well, there is teamwork in play. So, if Peter webs one up that thick, Kurt could teleport them somewhere (Sokovia is big, and there is tons of cover) to try and get to it off (maybe hop over and grab someone like Beast for assistance) and back into the fight. So, I am not saying webbing won't play a big factor. Just that there is still a possibility for Team Fox to work together to free potentially trapped members. Also, not like anyone on Team Fox is really a slouch, speed-wise, either. The only one who doesn't really have any speed/reflex showings is Negasonic, and she is a living explosion, who could probably just blast webbing off herself, especially if she really cuts loose. So, cocooning them is easier said than done.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I watched those two timestamps you provided... and have to admit I was mistaken. I retract my statement. I still don't think Kurt is as strong as the super soldiers but he does indeed have super strength.
Yeah, I don't think he is SS-level, but he is still much stronger than a human. But, like I said, a lot of people miss it because it's easy to get lost in the speed at which he teleports around.