Islam

I could not find a thread discussing Islam/Muslim issues in particular.

The conversation between Joe Rogan, Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz was extremely interesting and definitely worth listening to:
https://youtu.be/lGdPcC0zBIQ

It is of course only one half of the conversation but it points out some glaring flaws with the radical polarization in the West driven by identity politics.

What are your thoughts on Islam? I think, there are some aspects that are worthwhile, and like any generalization, there are individual exceptions to the whole. Individuals should be judged by their own merits, not what ethnicity or religion they ascribe to.

However, these notions of peaceful religious coexistence are borne from the enlightenment that Christianity has gone through in the last 200 years in the West, but it seems some fundamental principles of Islam make it unable to co-exist on a large scale with modern western society. I don't believe this because of what Islam says. I could read the Devil's personal diary and separate the bad from the good. However, enacted on a large scale, as a tool of propaganda, that becomes a lot harder to do.

That being said, I think in a secular society, if someone wants to be religious and practice Islam, it is their fundamental right. But where do we draw the line?

There is real harm and suffering to societies that allow large scale Muslim practices that are NOT properly controlled. By that I mean, if you let in a large number of Muslim practicing immigrants, there seems to be an issue. BUT, if it is carefully vetted immigration selection, where powerful exogenous factors force integration and westernization, things change....At least I thought that, until the ISIS movement.....

THEN you have to consider the terrorists created by the extreme US foreign policies through back-door funding. If they did not have the resources initially provided by state governments, would everything be peaceful? I would say yes, except....Saudi Arabia is basically the most stable power in the Middle East and they are arguably the biggest backers of terrorist organizations from what I can gather....

This is a difficult question to answer. I just want to see some discussion beyond the regular "RACIST" vs. "TRAITOR" conversations. I know many practicing Muslims who are awesome. My "scientific observation" is that that access to sex and booze is the greatest integrator.

Well since you mentioned Sam, my views on Islam tend to more or less line up with his own. He called it the motherload of bad ideas. He talks about while the bible has some messed up shit, it can greatly vary. Whereas he feels the Koran is darker because it is more consistent with those themes.

He has spoken of passages that talk about being able to kill people who make "mischief" for Islam, and how the term is vague enough that you could use any excuse to kill.

Islam is just like any other religion, at least the other Abrahmic religions. You get what you personally take out it.

eg Christinaity/Judaism is littered with passages of condemnations, oppression and violence, yet not every Christian and Jew is out doing those things. Why do some Christians accept homosexuals as equals while others choose to condemn them when they're both in theory reading the same book/ideology.

IMO, religion is just an excuse for people to express their more negative views while not having to be accountable, the "I'm just following orders." mindset eg When an Islamic terrorist murders people because their region tells them its god's will, that was them, they're using this/that excuse out of the Qur'an to do what they wanted. Other Muslims certainly didn't feel the need to act that way.

edit: Having said that, I'd not enjoy living in a Muslim theocracy. They all seem ridiculously strict and backwards in regards to equality. But again, that goes back to what those in charge are taking out of their religion. eg Iran before the revolution had its issues; some severe, but its people had far more freedom on a daily basis.

1/4th of Earth's human population is Muslim and of that 2 billion a fraction of 1% of them commit religiously-motivated violence.

Say what you want about Muslim societies, but there are very few statistics that support the notion that Islam is incompatible with Western society.

Funny thing is, people so easily forgotten the Ottoman Empire almost conquered the World in WW1.

If they were left alone, they would have destroy all of Western society and implement Islam as law of the land.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
1/4th of Earth's human population is Muslim and of that 2 billion a fraction of 1% of them commit religiously-motivated violence.

Say what you want about Muslim societies, but there are very few statistics that support the notion that Islam is incompatible with Western society.

Do the math lol. What fraction of 1%?

.1%? Okay, .1% of 2 BILLION would still number in the millions. You get this, right?

To put that in perspective I'm pretty sure the number of actual nazis in the USA numbers in the thousands.

I can't speak for the number of actual nazis in other places. I'd wager probably similar.

But I'm guessing this will be dismissed, even saying .1% are radicals will be said to be too much, so there will be a few more zeroes added until people get a number they are comfy with.

Originally posted by SquallX
Funny thing is, people so easily forgotten the Ottoman Empire almost conquered the World in WW1.

If they were left alone, they would have destroy all of Western society and implement Islam as law of the land.

Stop talking.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I could not find a thread discussing Islam/Muslim issues in particular.

The conversation between Joe Rogan, Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz was extremely interesting and definitely worth listening to:
https://youtu.be/lGdPcC0zBIQ

It is of course only one half of the conversation but it points out some glaring flaws with the radical polarization in the West driven by identity politics.

What are your thoughts on Islam? I think, there are some aspects that are worthwhile, and like any generalization, there are individual exceptions to the whole. Individuals should be judged by their own merits, not what ethnicity or religion they ascribe to.

However, these notions of peaceful religious coexistence are borne from the enlightenment that Christianity has gone through in the last 200 years in the West, but it seems some fundamental principles of Islam make it unable to co-exist on a large scale with modern western society. I don't believe this because of what Islam says. I could read the Devil's personal diary and separate the bad from the good. However, enacted on a large scale, as a tool of propaganda, that becomes a lot harder to do.

That being said, I think in a secular society, if someone wants to be religious and practice Islam, it is their fundamental right. But where do we draw the line?

There is real harm and suffering to societies that allow large scale Muslim practices that are NOT properly controlled. By that I mean, if you let in a large number of Muslim practicing immigrants, there seems to be an issue. BUT, if it is carefully vetted immigration selection, where powerful exogenous factors force integration and westernization, things change....At least I thought that, until the ISIS movement.....

THEN you have to consider the terrorists created by the extreme US foreign policies through back-door funding. If they did not have the resources initially provided by state governments, would everything be peaceful? I would say yes, except....Saudi Arabia is basically the most stable power in the Middle East and they are arguably the biggest backers of terrorist organizations from what I can gather....

This is a difficult question to answer. I just want to see some discussion beyond the regular "RACIST" vs. "TRAITOR" conversations. I know many practicing Muslims who are awesome. My "scientific observation" is that that access to sex and booze is the greatest integrator.

How many Nazi's wanted to kill "inferior races"? How many even knew the purges were happening?

The base is rarely composed of fanatics. Nazisim is no different. Are you prepared to argue the case of a "good Nazi"?

If not, why not?

Originally posted by Robtard
Stop talking.

Prove what I said wrong then?

The Central Powers in WWI consisted of four main players:

The German Empire, its religion was mainly Protestant
The Austro-Hungarian Empire, its religion was mainly Catholic
The Kingdom of Bulgaria, its religion was mainly Bulgarian Orthodox
The Ottoman Empire, it's religion was Islam

Three Christian based nations, one Islamic. It was a land grab, power grab, resource grab and the ability to keep established monarchies in place. Not an "Islamic Jihad, durka durka!" as you seem to think.

edit: Meant "grab", fixed

Originally posted by Robtard
The Central Powers in WWI consisted of four main players:

The German Empire, its religion was mainly Protestant
The Austro-Hungarian Empire, its religion was mainly Catholic
The Kingdom of Bulgaria, its religion was mainly Bulgarian Orthodox
The Ottoman Empire, it's religion was Islam

Three Christian based nations, one Islamic. It was a land grab, power grab, resource grab and the ability to keep established monarchies in place. Not an "Islamic Jihad, durka durka!" as you seem to think.

edit: Meant "grab", fixed

Didn't the Ottoman empire go all out in their own territory as well and it resulted in the Armenian genocide, that sounds like more than just an external power grab.

That was a genocide, as the name implies, it happened in phases during and after the end of WWI. Turkey (fmr Ottoman) did similar again later on.

edit: here Turkish–Armenian War

https://ibb.co/dvdyET

Are you a legit MGTOWer or are you doing it ironically?

Originally posted by Robtard
Are you a legit MGTOWer or are you doing it ironically?

Originally posted by Facee
Don't worry about me and stay on topic, phaggot. 🙂