Thank You, Koch Brothers! (Health Reform)

Started by snowdragon11 pages

And here we are the battle to be "right" over providing honest answers and solutions.

HMM how could we go wrong with so much ego.......

The Bernie detractors here (you scum know who you are) owe that old crazy Jew an apology; that's what the math is showing.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Bernie detractors here (you scum know who you are) owe that old crazy Jew an apology; that's what the math is showing.

Can you kindly articulate why I am wrong? Rather than appealing to math; which is not supported by any of the researchers on this subject.

What math? We already spend trillions on it via Medicare and such..how would increasing it to everyone save money?

Are you a troll? Yeah you’re just trolling now

@thedarthboys DDM already showed the math over the last 2-3 pages or so.

Originally posted by Robtard
@thedarthboys DDM already showed the math over the last 2-3 pages or so.

It was incorrect.

Originally posted by Robtard
@thedarthboys DDM already showed the math over the last 2-3 pages or so.

But the numbers he provided from Mercatus are inaccurate, so can you explain why he is correct?

Okay, how so?

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, how so?

He claimed that Mercatus purports that Bernie's plan costs 43 trillion, but in the study, they say 54 trillion.

Show it?

Originally posted by Robtard
Show it?

I have I posted a chart above.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Can you kindly articulate why I am wrong? Rather than appealing to math; which is not supported by any of the researchers on this subject.

You didn't actually make a point, though. I made a clear cradle-to-grave argument and even cited my sources, showed my work, and described my methods.

You're copying and pasting things again, not citing your sources, and you make no actual point. You're just raging about a 2 year difference (lol, you're buttmad because of a 2 year difference and think this changed the trillions of dollars difference).

$57 Trillion (current system) > $43 Trillion (Bernie's Idea)

$43 Trillion breaks down as follows:

$32.6 Trillion Bernie Sander's plan estimated cost:

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/federal-fiscal-policy/costs-national-single-payer-healthcare-system

"M4A would add approximately $32.6 trillion to federal budget commitments during the first 10 years of its implementation (2022–2031). "

Medicare's costs 2019-2028: $10,915 trillion 2019-2028

Right from here:

www.cbo.gov/publication/53651

I already did the math adjustment for you to make the argument more fair. Using the ~6.2% average year-over-year rate increase, $14,448 trillion.

Soooooo...comparing apples to apples using the actual numbers:

$32.6 Trillion Bernie Sander's plan estimated cost from Mercatus Institute 2022–2031

+

$14,448 trillion estimated Medicare costs 2022–2031

=

Drum roll....

$47.048 trillion

Bernie's plan will cost $47.048 trillion.

Wait a minute...those numbers look familiar!!!!

Where did we see those before?

Oh, here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
$14,448 trillion

Now add:
$47.048 trillion

Compare:

Is $56,047,940,768,320 (actual costs of healtchare 2022-2031>$47,048,000,000.000 (estimated costs to use Bernie's plan)

Yes

Conclusion: It will cost $9 trillion less to use Bernie's plan based on Mercatus' numbers.

Guess what?

$56,047,940,768,320 (actual costs of healtchare 2022-2031>$47,048,000,000.000 (estimated costs to use Bernie's plan)

Still true.

My arguments are original, cited, and hide nothing. It is using existing data and your very own trusted source to prove that Bernie's plan will cost far far less than the continued system.

Oh, I see the issue you are just looking at the costs of Medicare. Observe the costs of healthcare in it's totality in the chart above. You have to look at pharmaceutical costs and subsidies. This is the problem with in-house data. According to CBO, healthcare will cost about 22 trillion dollars.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
He claimed that Mercatus purports that Bernie's plan costs 43 trillion, but in the study, they say 54 trillion.

Try not to lie. I actually posted a correction to the numbers. To make it a pure apples to apples comparison. See my above post. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Try not to lie. I actually posted a correction to the numbers. To make it a pure apples to apples comparison. See my above post. 🙂

No, you just say the 14 trillion dollars in Medicare costs, but that is not all of Federal Healthcare spending.

You have to include: This includes federal Medicaid payments, Medicare outlays net of receipts, tax subsidies for employer-provided and ACA marketplace coverage, CHIP, other ACA subsidies and
research funding, net of revenues from employer-mandate penalties and taxes on health insurance plans and providers.

The source for 22 Trillion: See CBO, Federal Subsidies for Health Insurance Coverage
for People under Age 65: 2018–2028, May 23, 2018; CBO, Medicaid Spending and Enrollment—CBO’s April 2018 Baseline, April 2018; and CBO, Medicare—CBO’s April 2018
Baseline, April 9, 2018. CBO estimates were extrapolated beyond 2028, with adjustments for the additional Medicare payments projected to occur within 2028 because October 1
(the start of the next fiscal year) occurs on a weekend. f CBO, The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2018–2028, April 9, 2018.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
You have to include: This includes federal Medicaid payments, Medicare outlays net of receipts, tax subsidies for employer-provided and ACA marketplace coverage, CHIP, other ACA subsidies and
research funding, net of revenues from employer-mandate penalties and taxes on health insurance plans and providers.

No, I don't. You do. You make your argument for you, I don't have to.

$56,047,940,768,320 (actual costs of healtchare 2022-2031>$47,048,000,000.000 (estimated costs to use Bernie's plan)

Edit - Looking at their numbers break down. They included that, already, in their 32.6 figure. It says it right on the chart that they include those. Look at bullet point e:

"e This includes federal Medicaid payments, Medicare outlays net of receipts, tax subsidies for employer-provided and ACA marketplace coverage, CHIP, other ACA subsidies and research funding, net of revenues from employer-mandate penalties and taxes on health insurance plans and providers"

Your 47 trlllion is a severe lowball as you do not include: tax subsidies for employer-provided and ACA marketplace coverage, CHIP, other ACA subsidies and
research funding, net of revenues from employer-mandate penalties and taxes on health insurance plans and providers.

The number I posted: 54 trillion does include all of those variables, hence why it is more accurate. IDK, why are you acting as if your in-house data is superior to an actual reputable economist who spent months parsing this out?