Originally posted by Robtard
Being coerced into sex is tantamount to rape.eg If someone has embarrassing info on you and use that to get you to spread buttcheeks when you normally wouldn't have done so for them, that's the same as rape
That's right.
The real muddy waters are things like "sex for..." trades. If Weinstein "helped" women he slept with, is it rape?
The other elephant in the room is, if a woman does it to a man, does anyone even care, or have sympathy?
Originally posted by SurturMultiple people looked the other way in regards to Harvey victimising women, therefore the women Harvey victimised cannot be trusted.
I personally don't know how credible they are one way or the other. That has nothing to do with Harvey and everything to do with this seedy business they all existed in.I'm sorry if that bothers you, but given that apparently a lot in Hollywood looked the other way when it came to Harvey for a long time...it's hard to trust anything anymore.
If you need to twist it into a defense of Harvey because you have no better argument, so be it 👆
As always your logic is impeccable. No need for me to twist anything when you so frequently knock yourself out. 🙁
Originally posted by Surtur
I honestly don't know how I'd see the blackmail issue. Is there any cases in the past that dealt with such an issue?What about a guy who keeps bugging his gf and she says no and he keeps bugging her until she gives in? She was, in a way, coerced.
Really? You're torn on whether blackmailing someone into sex should be a crime? Do I understand you here correctly?
Not sure "bugging someone" falls under coercing someone, as coercion means using force and/or threats.
Originally posted by Surtur
What about a guy who keeps bugging his gf and she says no and he keeps bugging her until she gives in? She was, in a way, coerced.
Originally posted by Robtard
Really? You're torn on whether blackmailing someone into sex should be a crime? Do I understand you here correctly?Not sure "bugging someone" falls under coercing someone, as coercion means using force and/or threats.
Lol nope you don't understand me correctly. Blackmail is a crime. I'm just not sure if I see it as exactly tantamount to rape.
Originally posted by MythLord
Well, that's not really coercing, just being annoying. It's more like a child asking for a toy over and over until it gets it rather than getting being threatened by a jerk-off who wants to be jerked off.
I don't see how someone who doesn't wanna have sex and only does so in order to stop being bugged for it is not being coerced into sex.
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't see how someone who doesn't wanna have sex and only does so in order to stop being bugged for it is not being coerced into sex.
It's a simple concept and a big difference in effect and scale.
But let's look at it another way: if I begged you for a loan constantly and you just got annoyed and gave me money, did I rob you?
Originally posted by MythLord
Like I said, there's a core difference. In one instance, you're in a consenting relationship with an annoying partner, but the partner is just being a nuisance, not threatening and blackmailing you. It's akin to a kid begging for a toy.
Now, if the boyfriend went from just saying "Hey have sex with me" over and over to telling her if she doesn't agree to have sex with him he'll get her fired from her job, ruin her career and also post her nudes on the internet: that'd be coercion.It's a simple concept and a big difference in effect and scale.
But let's look at it another way: if I begged you for a loan constantly and you just got annoyed and gave me money, did I rob you?
IMO constant nagging at someone until they give in could be seen as a form of arm twisting. The implication being "if you want this nagging to stop, have sex with me".
You keep talking about a child and a toy. The child doesn't really know better. It's the same reason you'd view a little kid running up and grabbing your gf's butt as different than a grown man doing it.
As for the loan, like I said...I feel if you constantly just begged me(and you were a friend) and tried to guilt me, not robbery, but I don't think you could argue I actually wanted to give this person the loan.
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol nope you don't understand me correctly. Blackmail is a crime. I'm just not sure if I see it as exactly tantamount to rape.
Seems I did, actually.
If said blackmail is used to force someone into sex, how is that not tantamount to rape? You realize one crime does not necessarily negate another, yeah. There can be multiple offenses. Do better for yourself.
Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly, using blackmail to get someone to perform sex is in line with rape, as you're forcing them into sex with threats . Saying "if you suck me off, I'll get you a part in a film" isn't rape as the person isn't being forced, that is still sexual harassment though.
Think about it like this, a young woman approaches someone and says "Can you do me a favor and please *insert favor*" and it's not harassment even though she approached a stranger out of nowhere asking for special treatment. But if the guys says "Why yes I can but only if you give me head" then HE'S guilty of sexual harassment. I don't understand how we're still so sexual repressed as a society that sex is the one favor you're not allowed to ask for. It's hypocrisy at it's finest.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I honestly wouldn't even consider it sexual harassment. Don't get me wrong because I'm not arguing that it doesn't constitute sexual harassment under our current laws, I'm just saying that I think those laws are stupid and need to be changed. You can offer to help someone in exchange for them cleaning your house, teaching you kid to dance, or walking your dog without it being considered any kind of harassment whatsoever so WTF.Think about it like this, a young woman approaches someone and says "Can you do me a favor and please *insert favor*" and it's not harassment even though she approached a stranger out of nowhere asking for special treatment. But if the guys says "Why yes I can but only if you give me head" then HE'S guilty of sexual harassment. I don't understand how we're still so sexual repressed as a society that sex is the one favor you're not allowed to ask for. It's hypocrisy at it's finest.
If you can't see the difference between telling someone: "If you suck my dick, I'll help you move" and "If you help me with my gardening, I'll help you move", then that's on you.
Adding in a working relationship (as is the case with many of Wienstein's accusers), especially where one is in a higher position of authority only compounds that.
It's also works against women too, as you seem to be skirting the MRA line. It's sexual harassment when it's unwarranted.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually extorting/blackmailing someone with the threat of taking a negative action against the person if they don't give it up is rape. However, demanding sex as a quid pro quo for your own support/help isn't(or at least, it shouldn't be considered such). Seems pretty simple to me.
Then the question becomes if they can prove he blackmailed them into screwing him, if that is the claim that is made.
I will note "A lot of women accused him of it" is not sufficient proof IMO.
Originally posted by Robtard
If you can't see the difference between telling someone: "If you suck my dick, I'll help you move" and "If you help me with my gardening, I'll help you move", then that's on you.Adding in a working relationship (as is the case with many of Wienstein's accusers), especially where one is in a higher position of authority only compounds that.
It's also works against women too, as you seem to be skirting the MRA line. It's sexual harassment when it's unwarranted.
Originally posted by Surtur
Then the question becomes if they can prove he blackmailed them into screwing him, if that is the claim that is made.I will note "A lot of women accused him of it" is not sufficient proof IMO.