Originally posted by Putinbot1
Good, good, it's a sad thing when people need validating through debating and shout things like "To the BATtle zone"... Because it kind of spells geek, even among other geeks.
Originally posted by Surtur
Is there a communist regime I'm not aware of that wasn't authoritarian?
There are examples of communism on smaller scales though. Hippie communes, Jewish kibbutzes, Christian communist sects(Hutterites, Mennonites, etc). Some Christian communists are pretty interesting because it definitely flies in the face of mainstream Christianity. Many would argue Christ and the Apostles were straight up communists, or rather, proto-communists since communism wasn't a developed idea back then. For them, the Bible is text about social justice and is fundamentally opposed to most modern economic systems. Capitalism encourages greed, violence, and exploitation instead of compassion, peace, and justice. It is incompatible with the teachings of Christ for them.
It should be noted that religious communists are not usually marxists, even though those terns get put together often. I'm just a heathenous atheist though, so I can't give insight into every aspect of their views. It does fascinate me though.
Originally posted by StyleTimeAnother good post, yeah, Marx had the idea that we could basically be what we wanted and get fair remuneration. So for example, if I fished in the morning and got several fish I could trade you a fish for a fair number of vegetables. It the afternoon, I might decide to paint your house and you might decide to knit me a scarf, the number of hours and effort have to be equitable.
No, not at the state level. That is why many argue a communist state has never been achieved, as there would be no state. Communism isn't like socialism, capitalism, fascism, etc. Those systems still allow for goverment. Under communism, we'd just share everything without a central authority telling us what to do.There are examples of communism on smaller scales though. Hippie communes, Jewish kibbutzes, Christian communist sects(Hutterites, Mennonites, etc). Some Christian communists are pretty interesting because it definitely flies in the face of mainstream Christianity. Many would argue Christ and the Apostles were straight up communists, or rather, proto-communists since communism wasn't a developed idea back then. For them, the Bible is text about social justice and is fundamentally opposed to most modern economic systems. Capitalism encourages greed, violence, and exploitation instead of compassion, peace, and justice. It is incompatible with the teachings of Christ for them.
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Another good post, yeah, Marx had the idea that we could basically be what we wanted and get fair remuneration. So for example, if I fished in the morning and got several fish I could trade you a fish for a fair number of vegetables. It the afternoon, I might decide to paint your house and you might decide to knit me a scarf, the number of hours and effort have to be equitable.
Communism, in my view, isn't something you can force people into if you want it to work. You can't use a hyper strong government to create a no-goverment world. It's assbackwards. You're basically turning into fascists "temporarily" and pretending like you'll be fine giving up your power down the road.....which never happens.
The people have to choose communism.
Originally posted by StyleTimeVery true, animal farm is and always will be the best book on the Russian revolution. The "communists" were the best organised so they took over. They were never a majority, even in the communist party...
Pretty much.Communism, in my view, isn't something you can force people into if you want it to work. You can't use a hyper strong government to create a no-goverment world. It's assbackwards. You're basically turning into fascists "temporarily" and pretending like you'll be fine giving up your power eventually.
The people have to choose communism if it's going to work.
Originally posted by StyleTime
No, not at the state level. That is why many argue a communist state has never been achieved, as there would be no state. Communism isn't like socialism, capitalism, fascism, etc. Those systems still allow for goverment. Under communism, we'd just share everything without a central authority telling us what to do.
Oh yeah, I've posted about this, before, and used Marx' own words to make this point:
There's two major "groupings" of socialism and the one people confuse for everything is the Marxist Socialism.https://www.marxists.org/archive/fr...61/man/ch06.htm
[quote]
Socialism, for Marx, is a society which serves the needs of man. But, many will ask, is not that exactly what modern capitalism does? Are not our big corporations most eager to serve the needs of man? And are the big advertising companies not reconnaissance parties which, by means of great efforts, from surveys to "motivation analysis," try to find out what the needs of man are? Indeed, one can understand the concept of socialism only if one understands Marx's distinction between the true needs of man, and the synthetic, artificially produced needs of man....
Socialism is the abolition of human self-alienation, the return of man as a real human being. "It is the definitive resolution of the antagonism between man and nature, and between man and man. It is the true solution of the conflict between existence and essence, be tween objectification and self-affirmation, between freedom and necessity, between individual and species. It is a solution of the riddle of history and knows itself to be this solution". [98], [99] For Marx, socialism meant the social order which permits the return of man to himself, the identity between existence and essence, the overcoming of the separateness and antagonism between subject and object, the humanization of nature; it meant a world in which man is no longer a stranger among strangers, but is in his world, where he is at home.
I am for sure not talking about Marxist Socialism, but talking about the more common "Socialism." Idiots in the US combine the two definitions into one label and think all of it is "socialism." It's not.
But more about Marxist Socialism, Marx dressed up his words with pretty ideas and structures but at the essence of it, it was anti-theistic, antagonistic towards the reformation movement and the enlightenment period (where the idea of extreme individualistic liberty and freedom were seen as paramount to happiness) but not necessarily diametrically opposed to those concepts. He saw his brand of Communism in phases with the eventual outcome of man weaning themselves off the teet of religion and forming a happy utopia of communal industry (he believed it was the inevitable outcome of a society that grew through his idea of communistic maturity: religion was no longer necessary as an emotional crutch).[/quote]
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16405754#post16405754
Also, I've posted about Christ and his clearly communist ideas (pure communism, as you allude to). I even include biblical citations, from Christ's wording, to support my position. lol
It rustles jimmies when you tell many conservative Christians that Christ was definitely a communist. But the KMC search engine isn't working too well for me so I can't find the post. Oh well, no one would read it anyway. WEEEEE!
Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh yeah, I've posted about this, before, and used Marx' own words to make this point:Also, I've posted about Christ and his clearly communist ideas (pure communism, as you allude to). I even include biblical citations, from Christ's wording, to support my position. lol
It rustles jimmies when you tell many conservative Christians that Christ was definitely a communist. But the KMC search engine isn't working too well for me so I can't find the post. Oh well, no one would read it anyway. WEEEEE!
I knew Jesus was a commie the moment I found out his blood was red.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh yeah, I've posted about this, before, and used Marx' own words to make this point:I am for sure not talking about Marxist Socialism, but talking about the more common "Socialism." Idiots in the US combine the two definitions into one label and think all of it is "socialism." It's not.
But more about Marxist Socialism, Marx dressed up his words with pretty ideas and structures but at the essence of it, it was anti-theistic, antagonistic towards the reformation movement and the enlightenment period (where the idea of extreme individualistic liberty and freedom were seen as paramount to happiness) but not necessarily diametrically opposed to those concepts. He saw his brand of Communism in phases with the eventual outcome of man weaning themselves off the teet of religion and forming a happy utopia of communal industry (he believed it was the inevitable outcome of a society that grew through his idea of communistic maturity: religion was no longer necessary as an emotional crutch).
Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, I've posted about Christ and his clearly communist ideas (pure communism, as you allude to). I even include biblical citations, from Christ's wording, to support my position. lolIt rustles jimmies when you tell many conservative Christians that Christ was definitely a communist. But the KMC search engine isn't working too well for me so I can't find the post. Oh well, no one would read it anyway. WEEEEE!
He was the first guy to really explain the idea of Christian Social Utopias to me. Gustavo Gutierrez, Ernst Bloch, Leonardo Boff, the Bible itself, etc. I didn't even know what Liberation Theology was until reading some of these guys.
And it's not even a "new" idea in Christianity. Guys like Meister Eckhart and William Langland were pointing this stuff out as far back as the 1300's. They were at risk of being set on fire and dragged through the streets for heresy though so they had to be careful about the message. I've read St. Thomas Moore's Utopia, and that shit is a communist's wet dream.
And it's not even just Christianity. Abrahamic religions, regardless of how mainstream society ignores it, has these underpinnings. Sayyid Qutb wrote extensively about Islamic arguments for economic equality in Social Justice in Islam. Manya Shochat, Ber Borochov, and Yitzchak Epstein presented these ideas from the Jewish standpoint.
It was super interesting running into all this stuff, as you typically don't really hear this stuff in school. I miss that guy.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It rustles jimmies when you tell many conservative Christians that Christ was definitely a communist. But the KMC search engine isn't working too well for me so I can't find the post. Oh well, no one would read it anyway. WEEEEE!