This is the kind of question that really shows who understands how comics really work and who doesn't.
People who understand comics can see that there is often a 'permanent power up paradox' at work in comics. Think of it as classic Iron Man Syndrome (a Syndrome that he may finally have escaped to some degree).
But the key point is that a hero often gets explicit power ups that are explicitly referenced, typically in his own books but maybe more widely. Said hero may even start beating opponents he could not before, showing a true relative gain in power. However, the more the hero tends to jump out of his traditional ranking, the more likely it is for the power up to be explicitly temporary.
Still, sometimes explicit power ups don't get explicitly rescinded. Yet watch the relative standings of the heroes over time--they often settle back to their normal hierarchy despite the power ups of some of the heroes in the hierarchy. That's why I call it 'Iron Man Syndrome': think of how many times his armor got upgraded, but Iron Man basically stayed at the same tier.
So one has to be careful in saying that Superman was weaker back then. And thus is someone is on par with Superman now, he'd beat DOS Doomsday badly, etc.
Superman started off post-crisis as the #1 stunner, with Wonder Woman shown as a close second most of the time; but sometimes Superman did his crazy showings thing and seemed much more dominant compared to all the other top tiers. Much later in post-crisis, the ranking looked pretty much the same despite several permanent and explicit power ups on Superman's behalf that weren't matched by the other top tiers.
So it's tricky stuff, most of these power ups and then rating fights using them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Context.
Laughable when you of all people ask for context. But sure, here goes.
-Radiant had to raze 3/4 of the planet to kill DD.
- Guardian has to literally kamakazi, and that didn’t kill DD.
-Darkseid in their first encounter had to retreat, because he couldn’t permanently put down DD.
Hope the context works. But knowing you, you’ll do your best to deny them.
Originally posted by SquallX
Laughable when you of all people ask for context. But sure, here goes.-Radiant had to raze 3/4 of the planet to kill DD.
- Guardian has to literally kamakazi, and that didn’t kill DD.
-Darkseid in their first encounter had to retreat, because he couldn’t permanently put down DD.Hope the context works. But knowing you, you’ll do your best to deny them.
But DD was unable to roll on Wonder Woman, and by the way that you're going on about him this should have been easily accomplished. Then you bring up Darkseid who would have destroyed the far weaker DOS DD, which is the context that you're conveniently leaving out. If Adam is fighting to the best of his ability and not holding back, he wins this, because despite all of the exaggerated hype surrounding the character, which has turned into some of the most twisted fanfic, DOS DD did not possess planetary level strength, and tbh giving him more than city level strength is a stretch. Adam biggest victory came by way of defeating Pagan off panel, as it was showcased among the few accomplished tasks in his mini. Pagan beat a team that was more powerful than the one that DOS DD defeated. Of course hewont be credited on this forum, because it would be an outrage for a black fictional character to shine as brightly as Superman.
Originally posted by SquallXDD had a gl ring thus making the entire showing irrelevant since he does not have it here and it is an amp. Darkseid has submitted to Superman before, killed by Orion physically, so the showing makes sense. Surfer has destroyed entire planets before to defeat morg but that does not make it wholly more impressive imo. Marvel wins imo. Jurgens stated he came out of nowhere hence the impsct that he did have in the story,
Laughable when you of all people ask for context. But sure, here goes.-Radiant had to raze 3/4 of the planet to kill DD.
- Guardian has to literally kamakazi, and that didn’t kill DD.
-Darkseid in their first encounter had to retreat, because he couldn’t permanently put down DD.Hope the context works. But knowing you, you’ll do your best to deny them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
DD had a gl ring thus making the entire showing irrelevant since he does not have it here and it is an amp. Darkseid has submitted to Superman before, killed by Orion physically, so the showing makes sense. Surfer has destroyed entire planets before to defeat morg but that does not make it wholly more impressive imo. Marvel wins imo. Jurgens stated he came out of nowhere hence the impsct that he did have in the story,
Darkseid is far, far beyond BM, however.
DD annihilates energy beings.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo not mine. No. He evolved past one attack not all attacks from every energy being.
Not up for debate, Darkseid>>>BM, period. Please argue otherwise so i can annihilate you with ease yet again.
He's encountered and evolved past a wide variety of attacks: Oan, Qwardian, Chonal energy etc.
He also instantly countered Waverider's energy form.
BM cannot take out DD, nowwhere near powerful enough.
Originally posted by panthergodIyo not mine. That is off topic so I will not derail the thread just because you cannot handle a difference of opinion.
Not up for debate, Darkseid>>>BM, period. Please argue otherwise so i can annihilate you with ease yet again.He's encountered and evolved past a wide variety of attacks: Oan, Qwardian, Chonal energy etc.
He also instantly countered Waverider's energy form.
BM cannot take out DD, nowwhere near powerful enough.
Yes, I agree he can evolve past specific ones but he can also be killed by them.
I think BM is more powerful than dos personally.