A glass cannon. His force knowledge more than likely is superior to Palpatines since he does know the secrets Palps was looking for, but if he needs his guards to protect him since he can't fight he more than likely can't apply that power in a 1 on 1 confrontation. It also connects to Serkis statements about him being very powerful but very vulnerable at the same time.
Originally posted by The MerchantPalpatine also had guards, so how exactly does this argument fly?
A glass cannon. His force knowledge more than likely is superior to Palpatines since he does know the secrets Palps was looking for, but if he needs his guards to protect him since he can't fight he more than likely can't apply that power in a 1 on 1 confrontation. It also connects to Serkis statements about him being very powerful but very vulnerable at the same time.
Again with knowledge, Vader had more knowledge than Luke, but Luke still won.
Originally posted by The MerchantProof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?
Palpatines guards were there just to feign weakness, he doesn't actually need them. Snoke however does according to the TLJ visual dictionary, they fight for him since he can't fight himself.
Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?
Originally posted by BestDebaterEverDid Palpatine ever use his guards when it was revealed he also had powers and wasn't just Sheev the boy seducer?
Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?
Also Snoke seemed powerful in the Force but there's nothing showing he's on the level of Sheevatine. Comfortably below Sheev but above at least 2 Plo Koons worth of Force power would be a good start.
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?
And how many Force users can take out Jedi/Sith without engaging in Lightsaber combat at all?
Even if we are talking Yoda or Sidious, the highest they could probably take out without a Saber or engaging in close combat is what... Maul tier?
Dooku would be a serious stretch.
Add to that the fact that Snoke hasn’t even done anything overly impressive with his TK.
Originally posted by One Big MobNot that we see, but it doesn't answer my question. Is there proof he only had guards to feign weakness? Who was he feigning weakness to?
Did Palpatine ever use his guards when it was revealed he also had powers and wasn't just Sheev the boy seducer?Also Snoke seemed powerful in the Force but there's nothing showing he's on the level of Sheevatine. Comfortably below Sheev but above at least 2 Plo Koons worth of Force power would be a good start.
You're positing that Snoke is more powerful than two Plo Koons but comfortably below Darth Sidious. This would then mean, presumably, that Snoke's guards are also above two Plo Koons, even more comfortably (because why have guards if you are even better than your guards?).
Can you substantiate any of this, or is it just based on a feeling? I am genuinely intrigued now.
Originally posted by Darth ThorYou want an exact number? How do you suppose I dig up such data?
And how many Force users can take out Jedi/Sith without engaging in Lightsaber combat at all?Even if we are talking Yoda or Sidious, the highest they could probably take out without a Saber or engaging in close combat is what... Maul tier?
Dooku would be a serious stretch.
Add to that the fact that Snoke hasn’t even done anything overly impressive with his TK.
Sidious seemed to easily deal with Maul and and his brother Savage without a lightsaber. Him using a lightsaber at all was beneficial to the brothers and a detriment to his own chances of success, because he came within striking distance of them, something he would not have to do if he just made telekinetic playthings of them.
Is it a stretch? Sidious never seemed to need his lightsaber to keep Dooku in check when he was choking him from across the galaxy.
I wasn't questioning how great Snoke's TK demonstrations have been. I am questioning the idea that he "cannot fight for himself."
Snoke can't fight for himself in the respect that he has no physical weaponry, this is why the guards are there; any attacker would have to get through his guards physically to get to Snoke and in that timeframe he could TK or FL them but any Force user thats strong enough to get to him with a lightsaber could feasibly cut him down a lot easier than if Snoke had a saber as well obviously
Originally posted by relentless1So you believe the guards compliment Snoke rather than simply compensate for him? That would seem to make sense and I see no reason why we cannot apply the same logic to Sidious. One would need to confront his guards first before reaching Sidious himself.
Snoke can't fight for himself in the respect that he has no physical weaponry, this is why the guards are there; any attacker would have to get through his guards physically to get to Snoke and in that timeframe he could TK or FL them but any Force user thats strong enough to get to him with a lightsaber could feasibly cut him down a lot easier than if Snoke had a saber as well obviously
Originally posted by BestDebaterEverI never said Sheev had guards to feign weakness, I asked the question of if he ever actually used them in place of himself doing the dirty work when someone confronts him.
Not that we see, but it doesn't answer my question. Is there proof he only had guards to feign weakness? Who was he feigning weakness to?You're positing that Snoke is more powerful than two Plo Koons but comfortably below Darth Sidious. This would then mean, presumably, that Snoke's guards are also above two Plo Koons, even more comfortably (because why have guards if you are even better than your guards?).
Can you substantiate any of this, or is it just based on a feeling? I am genuinely intrigued now.
And with Sheev we know he doesn't need them, with Snoke the guy is a cripple so he would have more use out of them than Sheev. Maybe both don't "need them", but Snoke's are more certainly equipped to actually protect him (lightsaber resistant armor and weapons) than Sheev's are.
Like everything else on Snoke, it's based on feelings. Snoke's raw force powers do not mean his Guards get raised to the same level when they can do something that Snoke can't do; and that is engage in close quarters combat. Snoke could be 10 Sheevs in raw power and it still wouldn't raise the abilities of the Guards by proxy.
That was also just a general thought about the raw power of Snoke than an addendum on the Guard question since we know, or think we know he can't do lightsaber combat. He's obviously powerful in the Force so that's really the only thing we can base him on.