CaV: Vong Slayer (Gold Slorg) vs. Darth Maul (BestDebaterEver)
The Durron Killer vs The Deadlier than Ever
* The Vong Slayer is represented by Gold Slorg
* Darth Maul is represented by BestDebaterEver.
* All Legends feats, accolades and sources apply.
* Fight takes place in the middle of an abandoned Senate Rotunda. Starting distance: 20 meters.
* Both characters are going all-out, but no offensive Force abilities are allowed.
* The Judges: The_Tempest, Galan, DarthAnt66
And...begin!
Basically, Kyp Durron is obviously on a far, far higher level to Maul in terms of Force ability. Maul has nothing that compares to Kyp rotating the gravitational singularity of the dovin basal, using the Force to oneshot the leviathan, doesn't have the benefit of statements about his dwarfing potential on Kyp's scale. Kyp's monstrous Force ability just overshadows everything Maul has done in this department.
So, going by your own idea:
Moreover, proficiency with a lightsaber to some extent runs in tandem with Force power if the Force user is a devoted duelist, which both Caedus and Revan are, so if Revan is more powerful, it makes little sense if Caedus was above him as a duelist. Especially considering Revan learned all he could from the Jedi Order, which includes all lightsaber forms.
Kyp is a very martial Jedi, he's even classified as a Jedi Guardian. He's a war hero, he was the first on the frontlines of the war of all the Jedi in the NJO during the Yuuzhan Vong War and is one of its most accomplished combatants. Thing especially worth noting is that the Jedi had to rely on lightsaber skill throughout the entire war, since their normal abilities didn't work on Vongs. Times forced the Jedi to be devoted to dueling, because it was the only thing that worked.
Kyp may just lack the talent, the knack for fighting, and be a pretty shitty duelist for someone of his Force power, but the gap is just too extreme and Kyp simply has to be Maul-tier combatant based on your own idea.
Now, a Slayer so weak he died completely on his own, dropping dead minutes after the fight, still managed to defeat Kyp.
Even if we go with the idea that:
- Kyp had a really, really bad day, really bad position in the fight,
- Slayer had insane luck,
- he was the best of all the Slayers,
that still means the random, healthy Slayer is above Kyp, and above Maul as well.
Originally posted by gold slorg
Basically, Kyp Durron is obviously on a far, far higher level to Maul in terms of Force ability. Maul has nothing that compares to Kyp rotating the gravitational singularity of the dovin basal, using the Force to oneshot the leviathan, doesn't have the benefit of statements about his dwarfing potential on Kyp's scale. Kyp's monstrous Force ability just overshadows everything Maul has done in this department.So, going by your own idea:
Kyp is a very martial Jedi, he's even classified as a Jedi Guardian. He's a war hero, he was the first on the frontlines of the war of all the Jedi in the NJO during the Yuuzhan Vong War and is one of its most accomplished combatants. Thing especially worth noting is that the Jedi had to rely on lightsaber skill throughout the entire war, since their normal abilities didn't work on Vongs. Times forced the Jedi to be devoted to dueling, because it was the only thing that worked.
Kyp may just lack the talent, the knack for fighting, and be a pretty shitty duelist for someone of his Force power, but the gap is just too extreme and Kyp simply has to be Maul-tier combatant based on your own idea.
Now, a Slayer so weak he died completely on his own, dropping dead [b]minutes
after the fight, still managed to defeat Kyp.Even if we go with the idea that:
- Kyp had a really, really bad day, really bad position in the fight,
- Slayer had insane luck,
- he was the best of all the Slayers,that still means the random, healthy Slayer is above Kyp, and above Maul as well. [/B]
👆
I'll rate this post a 50 for calibration.
If your argument is that Kyp's Force abilities make him a better duelist, why am I not able to simply point out that Maul's superior dueling abilities are an indicator that he is more powerful? We know by any reasonable comparison he is a better duelist than Kyp in terms of feats or accolades, and we also know that environmental telekinetic feats are fairly nebulous going from source to source (Rivi Anu anyone)?
So I would posit that while I agree with your premise, what the outcome suggests is that Maul would also tool Kyp Durron while sick. Now I'm more interested in hearing you make a case for the Slayer, I'm not sure if that was a joke post, but either way, the mic is yours.
Also, I would like to see the full passage leading up to and after Kyp's fight with the Slayer, as I recall some Amphistaff shenanigans that could have drastically altered the outcome of that particular engagement.
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
If your argument is that Kyp's Force abilities make him a better duelist, why am I not able to simply point out that Maul's superior dueling abilities are an indicator that he is more powerful? We know by any reasonable comparison he is a better duelist than Kyp in terms of feats or accolades, and we also know that environmental telekinetic feats are fairly nebulous going from source to source (Rivi Anu anyone)?So I would posit that while I agree with your premise, what the outcome suggests is that Maul would also tool Kyp Durron while sick. Now I'm more interested in hearing you make a case for the Slayer, I'm not sure if that was a joke post, but either way, the mic is yours.
Also, I would like to see the full passage leading up to and after Kyp's fight with the Slayer, as I recall some Amphistaff shenanigans that could have drastically altered the outcome of that particular engagement.
Clever rebuttal, if a bit vague on details: will give this a 55.
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
If your argument is that Kyp's Force abilities make him a better duelist, why am I not able to simply point out that Maul's superior dueling abilities are an indicator that he is more powerful?
Here's a better one.
If Kyp's meditated TK performance is relative to his combat skills, His feat of moving a bigger black hole than Luke did should mean he performs as well as, if not better than Luke does against the Vong Slayers. But he doesn't...
We can rationalise thier disparity is many ways. The first idea is that Tk'ing objects doesn't translate well into combat, the second that TK is a decent proxy for fighting prowess, but Kyp's sickness just lowers his usual standard so much that he was at a loss against one Slayer.
Either way, Maul has the better hype and feats than a Slayer.
Originally posted by DarthCaedus78
Here's a better one.If Kyp's meditated TK performance is relative to his combat skills, His feat of moving a bigger black hole than Luke did should mean he performs as well as, if not better than Luke does against the Vong Slayers. But he doesn't...
We can rationalise thier disparity is many ways. The first idea is that Tk'ing objects doesn't translate well into combat, the second that TK is a decent proxy for fighting prowess, but Kyp's sickness just lowers his usual standard so much that he was at a loss against one Slayer.
Either way, Maul has the better hype and feats than a Slayer.
Or that wasn't prime Luke. In either case, I think gold slorg was trying to use BestDebaterEver's own (flawed) statement against him.
I think gold slorg was trying to use BestDebaterEver's own (flawed) statement against him. [/B]
Tru Story.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
[B]Or that wasn't prime Luke. In either case
Are you suggesting that that Kyp overtook Luke at some point, only for Luke to do more than just bridge the gap later in the NJO?