Yoda > Caedus.
Just accept it.
I believe Luke was immensely powerful (about twice as powerful as Darth Vader) at the time he fought Caedus (although obviously he was holding back and trying to protect Ben), and that Caedus was dismembered and wounded in other ways that hindered him and offset how powerful he became by the time he fought Jaina; as a result, we never got to truly see how powerful he was in combat (since he obviously grew stronger after his fight against Kyle), but his discussion with Lumiya establishes him as > Vader.
Originally posted by TheStrangeMan
Yoda wrecks Caedus, lmao.
Originally posted by Geistalt
Yoda > Caedus.Just accept it.
I believe Luke was immensely powerful (about twice as powerful as Darth Vader) at the time he fought Caedus (although obviously he was holding back and trying to protect Ben), and that Caedus was dismembered and wounded in other ways that hindered him and offset how powerful he became by the time he fought Jaina; as a result, we never got to truly see how powerful he was in combat (since he obviously grew stronger after his fight against Kyle), but his discussion with Lumiya establishes him as > Vader.
So opinions on a public forum are banned. No explicit evidence says Yoda>Caedus. I'm entitled to an opinion.
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
[B]Kyle would have got his limb sliced off you're desperate attempts to defend him and lowball Caedus aren't working man. Kyle was backed up by a team who saved him from getting his leg sliced off.
Unfortunately Kyle facing Jacen one-on-one and allowing his leg to get sliced off never occurred in any fictional work. So I hope you don't mind if we dispose of your fanficiton to discuss the actual manga. All it takes for Kyle to match or exceed Jacen in sabers (Caedus noted their coordination was threatening to him and chose to pick apart the fodder with his force powers) was a team of nobodies. I doubt that said team of nobodies could match Dooku in any confined contest
And that was injured Caedus.
* a mostly healed Caedus who can transfer his pain into power
As for Kyle being Ginn level he's above that lol.
Ought assumption. They're around the same age yet Ginn was well respected in a better epoch for the Jedi. NJO is merely the remanent era so it's unlikely that the council masters match the PT heroes, given that they're not particularly well established.
Oh yeah and we're ignoring the fact that Caedus is obviously the superior force user.
Esoterically speaking, yes. In terms of pure force power, maybe. But when it comes to offensive power against other strong duellists, dooku takes the cake - disposing of Kenobi while holding off Anakin.
Unfortunately Kyle facing Jacen one-on-one and allowing his leg to get sliced off never occurred in any fictional work. So I hope you don't mind if we dispose of your fanficiton to discuss the actual manga. All it takes for Kyle to match or exceed Jacen in sabers (Caedus noted their coordination was threatening to him and chose to pick apart the fodder with his force powers) was a team of nobodies. I doubt that said team of nobodies could match Dooku in any confined contest
If we look at the actual material we realise that if not for the team Kyle would have lost his leg in ten seconds without difficulty a fact that you've repeatedly ignored and resorted to farfetched conclusions like the idea that Kyle let himself be put in that situation because the team were coordinating. Your actual beliefs have no impact on what actually happened, Kyle has no reason to deliberately put himself in that situation and the argument that "He knew they had his back" is supported by nothing but your word. Simply because they coordinated well doesn't mean they put themselves in dangerous positions for no reason. Again backed up by nothing. Jacen was not beaten by the team in sabers or exceeded he simply notes that the team coordinating and defending each other as well as attacking simultaneously is a disadvantage for him, not that he's being outmatched. Him resorting to the force proves what exactly, he's simply using his advantages to dispose of them.
* a mostly healed Caedus who can transfer his pain into power
Even though the text explicitly notes he had yet to recover. His injuries were in no way as life threatening as when he could barely stand but they still existed and were significant.
Ought assumption. They're around the same age yet Ginn was well respected in a better epoch for the Jedi. NJO is merely the remanent era so it's unlikely that the council masters match the PT heroes, given that they're not particularly well established.
Kyle has better feats and accolades lol.
Esoterically speaking, yes. In terms of pure force power, maybe. But when it comes to offensive power against other strong duellists, dooku takes the cake - disposing of Kenobi while holding off Anakin.
Ragdolling Jaina Solo after having his arm chopped off, his kneecap shattered, his ankle crushed, his shoulder rendered useless by a gunshot wound, being stabbed in the gut and several other injuries. Not to mention the fact that Caedus is stated to be even more powerful than Vader someone who holds parity to and can ragdoll Starkiller who's feats absolutely shit on Dooku's.
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
If we look at the actual material we realise that if not for the team Kyle would have lost his leg in ten seconds without difficulty a fact that you've repeatedly ignored and resorted to farfetched conclusions like the idea that Kyle let himself be put in that situation because the team were coordinating. Your actual beliefs have no impact on what actually happened, Kyle has no reason to deliberately put himself in that situation and the argument that "He knew they had his back" is supported by nothing but your word. Simply because they coordinated well doesn't mean they put themselves in dangerous positions for no reason. Again backed up by nothing.
It does mean he can let himself be put in more "dangerous" situations if he has a force wielding team behind his back. The amount of options available to them increases as every single team member can opt for a more offensive combat style with less risk of actually being hit. This is whole point of fighting as team - teamwork. Which means that every jedi fighting plays a role making their strike unit better than any individual fighter of the ground. Why wouldn't Kyle make more risky manoeuvres if the role of the team is to cover each others backs? It makes perfect sense for him to do so if they want to mount a better offence. It's like letting the goal keeper save the football when you're playing up front. Only her Kyle can sense his team, their feelings, positions and actions through the force and preempt when they're going to happen. Everything here is totally sound from a logical perspective. Backed up by an understanding of team functionality , various descriptions of the force from sourcebooks, novels, the first Star Wars film and by the fact that Kyle - according to Caedus - is a threat to him. If we have canon battle where Jaecn takes of Kyle's leg in a lone duel then kudos to you. But until you find that match take your L.
Obviously you're too emotionally invested in Caedus to admit your wrong here - because if Jacen isn't someone who can just dispose of Kyle instantly in a duel it means your entire opinion of him is flipped on it's head. But that isn't my problem. It just means you have a poor reading of the canon and choose not to believe Jacen when he calls Kyle a threat. Even though everything suggests he is.
Jacen was not beaten by the team in sabers or exceeded he simply notes that the team coordinating and defending each other as well as attacking simultaneously is a disadvantage for him, not that he's being outmatched. Him resorting to the force proves what exactly, he's simply using his advantages to dispose of them.
So you basically admit Jacen is at a disadvantage in sabers against Kyle and his three initiates and opted to use the Force to pick them off one at a time. Concession accepted.
Even though the text explicitly notes he had yet to recover. His injuries were in no way as life threatening as when he could barely stand but they still existed and were significant.
They were apparently significant enough to only lament them at the tail end of the fight. So barely significant. Nothing he shouldn't be able to amp himself off either.
Kyle has better feats and accolades lol.
There is no common dominator in their feats and Ginn is better hyped and from a better time with more saber masters. You're lucky for me to be comparing them really.
Ragdolling Jaina Solo after having his arm chopped off, his kneecap shattered, his ankle crushed, his shoulder rendered useless by a gunshot wound, being stabbed in the gut and several other injuries.
I note the injuries and the exhaustion, but heres's the thing. He failed to rag doll Jaina. She broke her momentum - something Obi Wan couldn't do vs Dooku. Jaina also admits her self weaker than every master of the order at the time. I have no reason to disagree with her on this note either. Ultimately, he couldn't rag doll Katarn.
Not to mention the fact that Caedus is stated to be even more powerful than Vader someone who holds parity to and can ragdoll Starkiller who's feats absolutely shit on Dooku's. [/B]
First of all, novel blurbs are subjective. Second of all, being stronger than Vader in the force is no longer as impressive as it were a year ago. This given the extreme condition Starkiller was in when he fought and the fact that Vader has a plethora of feature limitations when it comes Force power in Legends - He's failed to shield himself from explosions that weren't astronomical in yield. He also failed to stop his own tie fighter flying off with TK. So this is someone who doesn't have parity to SK on neutral ground, and really has not much to ride home about.
Hmm.
Darth Malgus; Darth Thanaton; Exar Kun; Darth Jadus; Darth Traya; Darth Tenebrous; Arcann; Darth Malak; Ulic Qel-Droma; Darth Marr; Hero of Tython; Barsen'thor III; Emperor's Wrath; Darth Vader; Mace Windu; Darth Zannah; Darth Wyyrlok III; Darth Krayt; Tulak Hord; Marka Ragnos - to name some.
Some will/can defeat Darth Caedus. Some will put up a fight.