Phoenix Vulcan vs. Superman Prime

Originally posted by abhilegend
When did I try to dismiss any feat? Calm down, don't pull a Mr Master now.

I just said that the issue retells the feat, not sure what's your problem and frankly I don't care enough at this point.

Good day to you.

You tried to assert that the feat was reliant on some mysterious unrevealed powerup from the M'kraan crystal, when i questioned where on panel you got that information you couldnt tell me and then resorted to trying to dismiss the whole incident as "just" a retelling as if that fact meant that it wasnt canon. After i rubbished all of that nonsense you settled into your current position.

That works for me 🙂

Forgive me for my blunt nature i really need to have more consideration for those of a more sensitive disposition. 🙁

Sensitive? You obviously haven't met me till now.

Try harder next time.

Well, I think we can all agree that Vulcan didn't do anything anywhere near all that.

As we saw, Vulcan had very little control of the Phoenix. When pressed too hard in combat, the Phoenix flared up and, literally, consumed him. Rachel and Cyclops aren't here to help him, and Prime is the most physically imposing thing Vulcan's ever encountered. He will push Vulcan to the limit too fast.

Vulcan will blast Prime, and panic when Prime is still standing. As Prime returns fire, Vulcan will realize he's in over his head and the Phoenix will flare outta control and disintegrate him. Prime will stand there like 😑 as a flamebird eats his opponent and flies away to continue Phoenix shenanigans elsewhere.

I can't see Vulcan winning this.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, I think we can all agree that Vulcan didn't do anything anywhere near all that.

As we saw, Vulcan had very little control of the Phoenix. When pressed too hard in combat, the Phoenix flared up and, literally, consumed him. Rachel and Cyclops aren't here to help him, and Prime is the most physically imposing thing Vulcan's ever encountered. He will push Vulcan to the limit too fast.

Vulcan will blast Prime, and panic when Prime is still standing. As Prime returns fire, Vulcan will realize he's in over his head and the Phoenix will flare outta control and disintegrate him. Prime will stand there like 😑 as a flamebird eats his opponent and flies away to continue Phoenix shenanigans elsewhere.

I can't see Vulcan winning this.

If anything id say youve got their demonstrated personalities reversed.

Vulcan isnt one to panic, in battle. He rages. Its Prime who crumbles when faced with a bigger fish.

Vulcan lost control in that he gave into the destructive nature and rampaged around the universe.

The only time he truly could not control the power was when he tried to use it against the Summers/Grey bloodline and thats when the Phoenix resisted due to its affinity with that line as a result of its prime host Jean.

Other than that Vulcans good to go. He atomized Gladiator (who is a Marvel analogue of Superman) with a thought.

As ruthless and determined as Vulcan is, Superboy Prime doesnt stand a chance.

I have to disagree there. Rachel pointed out explicitly that the Phoenix reacts poorly to negative emotions, and would kill Vulcan because of it. This happened after he got hurt and freaked out, although he was said to have little control right after he obtained it too. It was the first time he met any resistance and he caved. I don't see this going any differently tbh.

Jean protected Cyke and Havok true, but she didn't make the Phoenix go haywire. And, depending on when you think she first intervened, Cable was blocking hits just fine.

Gladiator isn't close to Prime though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I have to disagree there. Rachel pointed out explicitly that the Phoenix reacts poorly to negative emotions, and would kill Vulcan because of it. This happened after he got hurt and freaked out, although he was said to have little control right after he obtained it too. It was the first time he met any resistance and he caved. I don't see this going any differently tbh.

Jean protected Cyke and Havok true, but she didn't make the Phoenix go haywire. And, depending on when you think she first intervened, Cable was blocking hits just fine.

Gladiator isn't close to Prime though.

Jean was with them from the start of that battle.

After Vulcans initial attack Cyclops was on fire but it didnt do any damage and he remarked that the heroes werent alone and that he could feel "her" as in Jean.

https://i.imgur.com/MK2AKuF.png

The Phoenix resisted Vulcan only from the moment he began attacking the bloodline she had an affinity to.

Yes the Phoenix reacts poorly to negative emotions, thats canon we know this. But Vulcan was consumed by its power and subsequently raging from the the start and yet he rolled with the rage and was in full control and decimated worlds and galaxies because he wanted to. The differentiator was his attack on the Grey/summers clan and it was explicitly remarked that Jean was now intervening.

A Superman level being cant be dismissed as nothing in comparison to Superboy Prime.

Regardless you're missing the point. Gladiator was atomised with zero effort by a widespread attack that wasnt even focused at him specifically. A concentrated attack on Superboy Prime would see similar results. 😉

Originally posted by StyleTime
Rachel and Cyclops aren't here to help him, and Prime is the most physically imposing thing Vulcan's ever encountered. He will push Vulcan to the limit too fast.

Vulcan will blast Prime, and panic when Prime is still standing.

Originally posted by zopzop
I actually think he beats SMP.

Did the SCALEBAG ABOMINATION write this or do you really believe this?!!!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[b]Did the SCALEBAG ABOMINATION write this or do you really believe this?!!! [/B]

Originally posted by zopzop
Sorry LoB. sadwalk
PF Vulcan was a monster and this was with Jean putting him on a leash.

So this BETRAYAL is of your own free will!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean was with them from the start of that battle.

After Vulcans initial attack Cyclops was on fire but it didnt do any damage and he remarked that the heroes werent alone and that he could feel "her" as in Jean.

https://i.imgur.com/MK2AKuF.png

The Phoenix resisted Vulcan only from the moment he began attacking the bloodline she had an affinity to.

Yes the Phoenix reacts poorly to negative emotions, thats canon we know this. But Vulcan was consumed by its power and subsequently raging from the the start and yet he rolled with the rage and was in full control and decimated worlds and galaxies because he wanted to. The differentiator was his attack on the Grey/summers clan and it was explicitly remarked that Jean was now intervening.

A Superman level being cant be dismissed as nothing in comparison to Superboy Prime.

Regardless you're missing the point. Gladiator was atomised with zero effort by a widespread attack that wasnt even focused at him specifically. A concentrated attack on Superboy Prime would see similar results. 😉

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[b]So this BETRAYAL is of your own free will!!! [/B]

Originally posted by zopzop
In my defense, I'm currently battling the flu. My mind ain't 100%. 🙁

I will keep this in mind.

HOWEVER..

YOUR SIG IS NOT HELPING MATTERS!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean was with them from the start of that battle.

After Vulcans initial attack Cyclops was on fire but it didnt do any damage and he remarked that the heroes werent alone and that he could feel "her" as in Jean.

https://i.imgur.com/MK2AKuF.png

The Phoenix resisted Vulcan only from the moment he began attacking the bloodline she had an affinity to.

Yes the Phoenix reacts poorly to negative emotions, thats canon we know this. But Vulcan was consumed by its power and subsequently raging from the the start and yet he rolled with the rage and was in full control and decimated worlds and galaxies because he wanted to. The differentiator was his attack on the Grey/summers clan and it was explicitly remarked that Jean was now intervening.

We can't assume something else if the dialogue is literally telling us the mechanism at play. He decimated worlds because no one was there to actually press him. Prime won't fall over like the folks he faced, which were primarily metas.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A Superman level being cant be dismissed as nothing in comparison to Superboy Prime.

Regardless you're missing the point. Gladiator was atomised with zero effort by a widespread attack that wasnt even focused at him specifically. A concentrated attack on Superboy Prime would see similar results. 😉

No, I understand your point. I'm highlighting why you're mistaken. Even if we ignore the rest of this discussion, Prime has durability feats so astronomically beyond Vulcan's demonstrated offensive output, it's disingenuous to claim Vulcan could atomize him. Meanwhile, Vulcan has never dealt with someone on Primes level. Gladiator isn't anywhere close.

Originally posted by zopzop
Are you freaking kidding? Annihilus with the Quantum Bands survived Galactus' "Herald my Rage" blast but was vaporized by Vulcan.

Regardless, Prime is astronomically more durable than Annihilus going by feats. The guy had a universe explode in his face.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Nova said "Annihilus is dead." Saying "vaporized" is just you speculating. We didn't see what happened, so maybe he just confirmed Annihilus's body?

It took out three solar systems iirc. Also wasn't really an explosion, just a wave of cosmic energy that happened to expand that far.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dead, annihilated, vaporized, destroyed, etc... The point is PF Vulkan KILLED him. The same dude that survived Galactus' 'herald my rage' blast that wiped a galaxy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It took out three solar systems iirc. Also wasn't really an explosion, just a wave of cosmic energy that happened to expand that far.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
iirc it didn’t destroy a galaxy, it was something like 6 solar systems. Annihilus has the Q bands stacked with the CC rod.

PF Vulcan took out a guy that survived a galaxy busting blast from Galactus that wiped out the Annihilation Wave.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dead, annihilated, vaporized, destroyed, etc... The point is PF Vulkan KILLED him. The same dude that survived Galactus' 'herald my rage' blast that wiped a galaxy.

Originally posted by zopzop

PF Vulcan took out a guy that survived a galaxy busting blast from Galactus that wiped out the Annihilation Wave.

It's still less impressive than Prime.

Originally posted by zopzop
In the original story, you guys are correct. It was stated that it took out 3 star systems with no sign of slowing.

In the retelling, it took out the entire galaxy.

PF Vulcan took out a guy that survived a galaxy busting blast from Galactus that wiped out the Annihilation Wave.

This was published in 2011, so after Thanos Imperative. Thanos never said it was Galactus who wiped the galaxy clean which is ridiculous because we later see most of the planets in the galaxy intact.