Originally posted by zopzop
How did each of them do vs PF Rachel?
Originally posted by Magnon
Selene lost. Whereas Spiral one-shotted her.
Spiral had to reflect the attack magically, which only worked because Rachel didnt notice her put the spell up.
Regardless, Spiral wont win the comparison game. Look at Rogue for example. Rogue KO'd her via drain, although Spiral's psyche was dominant, and on another occassion bounced her around like a pinball. Selene in the same situation tanked Rogue's attack, ignored the drain, and choked Rogue while draining her instead.
Spiral is great when she can get her spells off(often with teammates helping or in ambush scenarios), but I see her as a lower tier version of Selene tbh.
Originally posted by zopzopSelene never beat PF Rachel.
Scans with proof?
Selene: "I need time-- to recover my strength"
Originally posted by StyleTime
Right. Rachel didn't bond with it until some issues later. My bad.Selene: "I need time-- to recover my strength"
I don't think I'm explaining myself adequately here. Even if we ignore Selene's need to feed, which could totally explain her weakened state, she was still literally sleeping in bed when an out-to-kill Phoenix Rachel unloaded on her. If I hit you with a sledgehammer while you sleep, then beat you in a fight, I didn't "outclass" you.
If anything, it's impressive a defenseless Selene can eat the attack and still fight at all.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't think I'm explaining myself adequately here. Even if we ignore Selene's need to feed, which could totally explain her weakened state
she was still literally sleeping in bed when an out-to-kill Phoenix Rachel unloaded on her. If I hit you with a sledgehammer while you sleep, then beat you in a fight, I didn't "outclass" you.If anything, it's impressive a defenseless Selene can eat the attack and still fight at all.
Originally posted by zopzopProve she was weakened! NO ISSUE leading up to the fight says so. She needed to catch her breath after she was attacked in her sleep by Rachel. That's it.
Rachel was toying with her before going in for the kill. When she got bored with Selene, she was about to crush her to death and Selene couldn't do sh|t about it. If she wanted to kill her in her sleep, she would have done so.
You're adding things to the scene. Rachel explicitly resolved to kill them twice, and Selene in particular, leading up to the encounter. Once in the very moment before she attacks. No where does she say "I want to toy with them first. "
Originally posted by zopzop
If she wanted to kill her in her sleep, she would have done so.
i love spiral. if we focus purely on her highest feats and ignore the times she was beat down by longshot or beaten by shatterstar, she would have a chance. her powers were and remain in some cases difficult to fully pin down and they change often. my respect thread has all dead links i'm afraid but she has wiped the floor with the xmen and obviously was capable of depowering all of the avengers. however, she is not consistent and she has also been weakened more than once. at her best she could certainly compete and maybe win. in general and factoring in all showings, i'd take selene. it's a funky match up with 2 characters who are really tough to categorize with certainty.
Logic Lessons courtesy of Styletime :
Lesson 1 : Hungry and weak vampires take power naps rather than hunt for food to bring them back to full power.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I said in the last post, we could go with your interpretation. It changes nothing. Weak from lack of food.
Lesson 2 : The same energy claw attack that was about to kill a fully conscious and actively resisting Selene wouldn't have killed a sleeping and helpless Selene.
She tried and failed.
Makes perfect sense! 👆
Here is the full fight in context :
Originally posted by zopzop
Logic Lessons courtesy of Styletime :Lesson 1 : Hungry and weak vampires take power naps rather than hunt for food to bring them back to full power.
Originally posted by StyleTime
we could go with your interpretation. It changes nothing. Weak from lack of food. Weak from Rachel trying to kill her in her sleep. It's irrelevant. Any way you slice it, she started off the fight handicapped.
Of course, you ignored the context of my sentence just like you ignored the context of the fight.
Originally posted by zopzop
Lesson 2 : The same energy claw attack that was about to kill a fully conscious and actively resisting Selene wouldn't have killed a sleeping and helpless Selene.
Then again, you don't get why being sledgehammered in your sleep would compromise you for a subsequent fight, even when the dialogue explicitly states so. I shouldn't be asking so much of you I guess. I apologize.
Originally posted by zopzop
Here is the full fight in context :
Zop gonna zop.
Just gonna address these points then I'm done because I'm bored with you.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Yes, that's exactly right. You get weaker the more you're beat up. That is how fighting works.Then again, you don't get why being sledgehammered in your sleep would compromise you for a subsequent fight, even when the dialogue explicitly states so. I shouldn't be asking so much of you I guess. I apologize.
You left out the part where Selene is passed out asleep as Rachel points out how Selene is "so vulnerable" before trying to kill her.
https://postimg.cc/rRF6B0kc
(Never mind the fact that the scans I posted clearly show Selene sleeping in bed when Rachel attacked her).
Zop gonna zop.