George also said Luke as of Return of the Jedi is now "an experienced warrior," "his full, mature self," and, "ready to face his final challenge." All of which implies George Lucas views Luke as of Return of the Jedi as Luke with his full potential achieved. And in the ESB Audio Commentary, George made it clear that Luke's potential was enough to overcome Palpatine.
Also, it's factually inaccurate to claim Palpatine wasn't phased at the idea of facing Luke and Vader at the same time. When Luke is stomping Vader at the start of their fight in the RotJ novel, Luke senses Palpatine's deepest emotion, and feels just how terrified the Emperor is of him (paraphrasing, as I'm at work and don't have the quote handy). So Sidious was afraid of RotJ Luke's power. Which can also be inferred from the way he discusses Luke with Vader in both ESB and RotJ. "He could destroy us ," "He has grown powerful. Only together can we turn him," ect.
And yes, Sidious "one-shotted," Luke, but you are ignoring a ton of context around that. Luke wasn't fighting back. It's not like Luke and Sidious had an actual fight. Luke tossed aside his weapon and refused to fight any longer, as the very act of fighting was giving in to the dark side (as stated by Lucas in the RotJ commentary). So Sidious "one-shotted" someone who was actively refusing to fight back. Reeeeal impressive.
I might just make a thread on this when I get home. While I do feel Palpatine>Luke, I feel there's enough evidence to prove that RotJ Luke was intended to be in Palpatine's tier at the time George did the audio commentary for RotJ.
Now you're just flinging sh!t at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. When one thing's been debunked you move onto another, even more ridiculous point. It's getting tiresome. It has been established that Luke is Vader's equal, none of them can touch the Emperor, and Muur is still above Vader.
The fact that you're so desperate you'd even consider bringing up 'Luke might be in Sheev's tier by RotJ' is unbelievable. I'm sparing you further embarrassment by ending this here.
I'm done with this thread Underachiever, and I'm not going to validate your rationalisations by replying to them further.
I mean, if we want to take Lucas literally, then PT era Jedi shit all over RotJ Luke and Vader. Lucas was obviously looking at it from a storytelling point of view, but the actual story and surrounding Legends material utterly contradicts the aforementioned. Just as it's ridiculous to seriously consider Old Ben >> ANH Vader. I mean, Ben sits around and farts all day, Vader is going on missions, immersing himself and honing his power, regularly sparring with droids and stuff.... The most you could realistically argue for is that Ben is roughly equal to ANH Vader.
Originally posted by AncientPower
I take them as binding because they're reinforced in OOU Legends sources and the overall narratives of TOTJ, JAT and SofP.But no Marka Ragnos' spirit's restoration requiring a dozen times more power than it takes to channel the power to ragdoll an armada of Star Destroyers is pretty concretely > Darth Nihilus.
It is not like Tavion had any idea of how powerful Marka Ragnos was in reality during the ancient times of The Sith. For what we know she could have thought she needed a lot of Dark Side energy to reawaken his ghost. When in reality it was not the case at all. We also know that Tavion was extremely devoted to Marka Ragnos, enough to create a cult. It would make sense she would try to make Marka Ragnos the most powerful Sith Lord ever by absorbing Force nexi with his Scepter.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
He's literally two whole tiers ahead of Vader according to Lucas...
Originally posted by Meatpants
I mean, if we want to take Lucas literally, then PT era Jedi shit all over RotJ Luke and Vader. Lucas was obviously looking at it from a storytelling point of view, but the actual story and surrounding Legends material utterly contradicts the aforementioned. Just as it's ridiculous to seriously consider Old Ben >> ANH Vader. I mean, Ben sits around and farts all day, Vader is going on missions, immersing himself and honing his power, regularly sparring with droids and stuff.... The most you could realistically argue for is that Ben is roughly equal to ANH Vader.
This....
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
It is not like Tavion had any idea of how powerful Marka Ragnos was in reality during the ancient times of The Sith. For what we know she could have thought she needed a lot of Dark Side energy to reawaken his ghost. When in reality it was not the case at all. We also know that Tavion was extremely devoted to Marka Ragnos, enough to create a cult. It would make sense she would try to make Marka Ragnos the most powerful Sith Lord ever by absorbing Force nexi with his Scepter.
That would go against the entire plot of the game if Tavion didn't know how much energy she needed to bring back Ragnos. Logically speaking, she more than likely met his spirit or tried to bring back Ragnos with lesser amount of dark side power but couldn't, which is why she needed multiple Nexi in order to do so.
Btw fun fact you can call this boasting but one kd the followers in the cult said if Ragnos were ti be reborn then all Jedi in the galaxy will die.
For this video skip to 36:10 and 48:13. Tavion mentions how Ragnos will help her destroy all the jedi.
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For this one skip to the 0:40 mark, Alora says with Ragnos a the Jedi will be destroyed and they'll rule the Galaxy.
Ofc it's boasting, but Tavion does have some knowledge how strong Katarn and Luke are, so she must be extremely confident on Ragnos abilities.
Originally posted by The Merchant
That would go against the entire plot of the game if Tavion didn't know how much energy she needed to bring back Ragnos. Logically speaking, she more than likely met his spirit or tried to bring back Ragnos with lesser amount of dark side power but couldn't, which is why she needed multiple Nexi in order to do so.Btw fun fact you can call this boasting but one kd the followers in the cult said if Ragnos were ti be reborn then all Jedi in the galaxy will die.
Nadd awakened Sadow's spirit and did not come there to give him Dark Side energy. You don't need Dark Side nexi to reawaken malignant ghosts.