Why isn't religious belief considered to be a form of mental illness?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have been vocal about the idiocy of Political Correctness long before Trump. I don't need a moron like Trump to embolden me. In fact, I should feel like an idiot if I needed someone like Trump to embolden me to speak out against Political Correctness.

👆

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He has, but as a larger point he's emboldened people who disagree with the "progressive left." That includes the far right, but not exclusively.

I could by the same token argue someone like Bernie Sanders emboldens actual marxists, but Bernie himself is just arguing his stances and though he calls himself a democratic socialist he comes across more as a social democrat. I'm going to judge him off of his own policy positions, not the policy positions of the worst people that happen to be emboldened by him.

Fair point, but...

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's nothing wrong with actual pure communism. In fact, that is the ideal society. Humans are just incapable of stopping their selfishness. "Communism" is used as a dirty word but I'm okay with communists being emboldened by Bernie Sanders. Here's hoping that humans can evolve enough to form something similar to the United Federation of Planets and money becomes meaningless.

But all the rest of what you say about Bernie...man, I really could not care less about those meaningless nuances.

...Communism is at least an attempt to amplify the best in human nature and incentivise helping people whereas far-right idealogy ampiflies the worst of human nature. Also Bernie Sanders isn't an obviously irrational and moronic demagogue.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Nice attempt to turn it around. I like that. But there's nothing wrong with believing in "a higher power of some sort," (in theory), but the problem is an anthropomorphized God who answers prayers, writes books (many different contradicting ones) and generally gives a shit what people do or think or say. The problem is this idea of revelation. For that there's no good evidence. And the other flaw in your reasoning is that just because lots of people believe it doesn't make it true. Belief doesn't make reality. Reality should lead to belief. In other words, you should only believe something if there's good reasons to do so.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Look up the "burden of proof" (see attached). It rests on the person making the claims to provide convincing evidence. I'm not required to disprove claims. Atheism is merely a lack of belief due to lack of evidence. It is not an assertion that there is no god.

It's very possible that you can find a some recognized mental disorder in which religious people could fit into, but delusional just doesn't fit the bill as it is defined. At the end of the day, the Joker is not the Riddler.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not that I buy into the "all religious people are mental" sentiment, but come on now, who's more mental, the person who believes in a magical Skyfather or the person who rejects the idea.

Neither is mental based on that basis alone.

IMHO:

Religion doesn't kill; people do. Religion serves a valuable function: it addresses the best in us, our highest, most noble aspirations, in the context of death terror. But unfortunately, it can be abused (religionism -- history is rife with it), like any other belief system. If a person is bent on doing harm, to herself or others, she will find any excuse to justify her actions, be it religious, political, whatever.

We are the *problem*. Not our tools.

Yeah its like Tony Robbins Robbins (or any of the self help gurus) dangerous.

And a lot of them do believe in a higher power for us to connect with. Doesnt make them mental lol

Originally posted by Mindship
IMHO:

Religion doesn't kill; people do. Religion serves a valuable function: it addresses the best in us, our highest, most noble aspirations, in the context of death terror. But unfortunately, it can be abused (religionism -- history is rife with it), like any other belief system. If a person is bent on doing harm, to herself or others, she will find any excuse to justify her actions, be it religious, political, whatever.

We are the *problem*. Not our tools.

Well said, sir.

Said myself many a time and by no means am I original here: Religion is what the individual takes out of it. eg A Christain can take and push "God loves us all" in the same measure they can take "F@ggots need to die!", it's their choice.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well said, sir.

Said myself many a time and by no means am I original here: Religion is what the individual takes out of it. eg A Christain can take and push "God loves us all" in the same measure they can take "F@ggots need to die!", it's their choice.

I mostly agree. However, Jesus Christ was extremely clear on some things and no amount of Christian-mental-gymnastics can justify some of the more terrible things Christians have done.

For example, you can't say you're a Christian (follow the teachings of Christ) but also claim to be an emancipated, independent, US Citizen to get out of paying taxes. That's not "rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's."

You also cannot knowingly murder innocent people (such as our military conquests where we have expected civvy causalities built into our operations...WTF?) and still call yourself a Christian. So on and so forth for things like adultery, doing drugs, and selfishness.

Reality is, these kinds of people would like others to believe they are good and want others to think they follow Christ's teachings but really they're hypocrites who want to create idealized versions of themselves.

I'm a God-fearing Christian and a good person!

*Systematically demonstrates racism, drinks alcohol, cheats in relationships, and supports murder (any non-defensive wars)*

Yup, such a great Christian.

Wow. You really Cherry Picked your Talking Points there.

And then pushed the usual "Out of Context/Lies" about it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I mostly agree. However, Jesus Christ was extremely clear on some things and no amount of Christian-mental-gymnastics can justify some of the more terrible things Christians have done.

For example, you can't say you're a Christian (follow the teachings of Christ) but also claim to be an emancipated, independent, US Citizen to get out of paying taxes. That's not "rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's."

You also cannot knowingly murder innocent people (such as our military conquests where we have expected civvy causalities built into our operations...WTF?) and still call yourself a Christian. So on and so forth for things like adultery, doing drugs, and selfishness.

Reality is, these kinds of people would like others to believe they are good and want others to think they follow Christ's teachings but really they're hypocrites who want to create idealized versions of themselves.

I'm a God-fearing Christian and a good person!

*Systematically demonstrates racism, drinks alcohol, cheats in relationships, and supports murder (any non-defensive wars)*

Yup, such a great Christian.

For sure. But in fairness, it's nigh impossible to be a perfect Christian and not be a hypocrite in some fashion. Best one can strive for is to be the best Christian they can and as you just said, some oversteps are FAR worse than others.

Imho, to be a Christian* means to follow at least Christ's basic teachings, strive to do "good", help those less fortunate and do not judge others, as judgment is God's alone (James: 4-12) . Anecdotal: Sadly enough, I've met very, very few that even meet these modest standards.

*Similar goes with other religions/theist

Originally posted by Robtard
For sure. But in fairness, it's nigh impossible to be a perfect Christian and not be a hypocrite in some fashion.

I disagree. The Catholics do have a great approach to this: humility. They take the "I am a dirty, filthy sinner, who is a terrible person!" a bit too far but that's their approach. You can claim to be a Christian while not being a hypocrite. "I'm not perfect but I'm trying" is an honest approach and there's nothing wrong with that.

Edit - I don't think we disagree. After reading your post a second time, you hold a similar position. I just take a stronger stance.

Originally posted by Robtard
Best one can strive for is to be the best Christian they can and as you just said, some oversteps are FAR worse than others.

Imho, to be a Christian* means to follow at least Christ's basic teachings, strive to do "good", help those less fortunate and do not judge others, as judgment is God's alone (James: 4-12) . Anecdotal: Sadly enough, I've met very, very few that even meet these modest standards.

*Similar goes with other religions/theist

I agree. It's just that Christians are easier to pick on since Jesus was such a nice, loving, guy, who just so happens to be the foundation for Christianity. So it's easier to say, "Weeeeeell...that's not super Christlike" because of how clear He made some of the positions.

IMO, the average Republican is not a good and honest Christian. That's not very Christlike of me to be judgmental like that, I know.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, college, where they teach all that godless ev-o-lu-shun trash.

Sad that education and intellect is looked down upon now. Thanks, tRUMP culture!!

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It's really not that bad, Fly. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. There has been some of that popping up, but the degree to which it is a problem is still somewhat unclear.

But yes, it exists and that's a problem.

But what *I* find amusing is this overreaction and jump to the far-RIGHT as a result. Which solves nothing, it only adds fuel to the fire.

To us the Point of this Threads actual Topic. The Biggest lie the Devil Pulled off was to convince the world He dosen't Exist....

😱

As for the question at hand: Religion really is sort of a neutral thing. It's like any story, proverb or anecdote out there. You can take from it what you will and it really depends on the person if it'll be giving yourself up to a noble cause or bashing your father's head in with a hammer because he missed one day of Church.

Originally posted by Robtard
Said myself many a time and by no means am I original here: Religion is what the individual takes out of it. eg A Christain can take and push "God loves us all" in the same measure they can take "F@ggots need to die!", it's their choice.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm a God-fearing Christian and a good person!

*Systematically demonstrates racism, drinks alcohol, cheats in relationships, and supports murder (any non-defensive wars)*

Yup, such a great Christian.

Originally posted by Mindship
This is why I make the distinction between religion and religionism.

hmm

That's good. I'm stealing it.

Originally posted by Mindship
Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), Christianity is hardly alone in this. Regardless, I've also been thinking about those who stay silent while backing serial liars.

Yes, complicit silence. But some of them are silent in the real world but raging supporters online under the digital cloak of anonymity. Some of these are incredibly quite and cowardly in real life and only use that fake persona to act larger than they are.

Many of these are also griefers in video games (that kill other players over and over, to no benefit to themselves, other than to make some stranger's life miserable). Interesting that cowards in real life seem to support Trump in huge margins. Oh, wait, we were supposed to be maintaining a modicum of decorum with thinly veiled references to Trump. My bad. I'm not good at this. haermm

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, wait, we were supposed to be maintaining a modicum of decorum with thinly veiled references to Trump. My bad. I'm not good at this. haermm

I should start using a "I agree with DDM" on my sig.

With that said, I feel I can make an awesome mental gymanstics argument on how technically Jesus never downright made a hard rule on adultery on the Gospels.

(Obviously cheating and lying is still not compatible with christian values, I'm really fishing for the anecdote here)