Originally posted by Nibedicus
When my wife was about to give birth, she looked in the eye and made me swear that if it came down to a choice, I have to pick the baby no matter what. It made my heart sink like you wouldn’t believe and the relief I felt after my baby and her were both healthy at the end is indescribable.We don’t disagree when the mother’s life is in danger. I will not ask a mother or another person for that matter to sacrifice their life for another. But the wording of the law:
"According to the practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case: the patient is within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient's life or health."
1) Mentions “medical practictioner” w/c is not necessarily a doctor. Could be a nurse of a psychologist. And it is based on their opinion.
2) Includes “health” and as with the Doe V. Bolton case (as mentioned by snowdragon):
“Whether, in the words of the Georgia statute, "an abortion is necessary" is a professional judgment that the Georgia physician will be called upon to make routinely. We agree with the District Court, 319 F. Supp., at 1058, that the medical judgment may be exercised in the light of all factors - physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman's age - relevant to the well-being of the patient. All these factors may relate to health.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_v._Bolton
With that the law makes it that you can terminate unborn child at any time (even right before conception) as long as you can have anyone from a nurse to a psychologist agree that this could be detrimental within a range of subjective reasons.
I think we can agree that a child 2 days before birth is a fully developed human being. I think we can also agree that abortion would be killing this human child and that it has become legal for reasons as relatively inconsequential as “it might have a detrimental impact to my emotional well being”.
Where is the line? How far will it have to move until you’ve decided that it’s gone too far for you?
Which makes it almost entirely subjective and can be easily skirted thru by lawyers.
Not trying to guilt you or trap you anything. I honestly want to know how far a pro-choice person like yourself would consider far enough.
Congrats on the healthy delivery, first of all. I don't want to imagine what it's like to be either of you in that scenario.
On the one hand, yeah, that's pretty vague. I would imagine that what's best for everyone is that the most qualified person possible make the call as to whether the mother's mental state is one that's vulnerable enough to be (or continue to be) severely damaged by carrying to term.
I'm also of the belief that mental health should definitely be a factor; if we start limiting it to just physical ailments, I think it would only lessen the seriousness with which mental health is treated, and that's a bad thing for me. Like with a rape baby, for example. I don't believe any woman should be forced to deliver a child forced upon her by that kind of violation.
It's a multifaceted problem, because in an ideal society, women (and men) would be educated enough about sex and pregnancy to be able to make informed decisions. And sensible enough too. But they largely aren't. Even in the most developed countries, you can find really, really bad sex instances of sex education. The kind of irresponsible woman that would only "decide" at eight months that she doesn't want to have the baby after all, is most likely the same kind of woman that wasn't educated about things like foetal-alcohol syndrome or even just basic protection. A woman who can access trusted mental-health professionals isn't going to wait until seven months in to want a termination, because that shit would have been sorted out months ago.
Not trying to get off-topic or anything; I genuinely think it all feeds together.
I am, generally, not opposed to a "no questions asked" period during which you can have an abortion. Ireland recently brought in legislation that allows such terminations before twelve weeks. I did some reading on how much a foetus has developed by then, and it seems like a reasonable period of time to me.
Would I extend that period to eight months? Seven months, even? I don't know. Probably not. That's the problem with trying to legislate for something like this: It affects far too many people in too many different ways. Just because I might prioritise my partner over the baby she's carrying, doesn't mean someone else would.
Until we figure out as a society the point at which a bundle of cells becomes a Human being with all the rights and privileges that are supposed to come with such a thing, then we're never going to get anywhere.
And I'm still deeply troubled by the idea that anyone could seriously advocate for forcing a woman (or any Human for that matter) to do something with their own body that she doesn't want to.
It isn't like, say, vaccinations, which everyone should do anyway.