Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So let's use them at full capacity, rather than low for one side or averages or whatever.Where did that whole average thing come from? I keep asking but no one answers. We have a full capacity rule, but there's no average rule...
i've heard pr endorse it, but never really considered it a forum rule per se, as much as a common sensical one. problem with full capacity is that it essentially becomes power set comparisons. in-character doesn't really have much impact. it also brings into play outlying feats as full capacity. /shrug
but if that's the case (and we remove bfr because, well, it's fukkin stupid) i guess hulk would just go full wbh and we use all the destroyer's highest feats, as well as zeus's--which....wouldn't be much, unfortunately, though he has battled evenly with odin briefly, so there's that. /shrug
using ONLY high feats, dc would win this. too many appearances collectively for them not to, really.
Originally posted by SquallX
Same could be said for Hulk Vs Iron Man, or Hawkeye, or Batman.
Hulk couldnt ko Spiderman either and using high fts only, we are fighting a Hulk whom skin is harder than Adamantium that possess super speed with enough strength to bench a sun (at his weakest) with a healing factor that is nigh instant. Also possess high Abstract level strength with enough punching power to RIP through time, enough strength at his weakest to over power Celestial might. He also cant be bfred... matter manipulation doesnt work on him and again, all of this gets amplified by the second since he possess an infinite well of energy that even surprises the likes of the original Beyonder. Hulk stomps. This is debating to the best of their abilities which is complete trash.
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i know. it makes me sad. very little actual real debating anymore around here. things like this guy solos or that guy solos-- 😂 --while amusing is completely idiotic. might be possible i guess if we use highest highs vs lowest lows but...such a stupid way to debate. like these guys casually solo skyfather+ characters, right?i'm on the committee to change the tier thread. guess we should consider bumping all dc guys right off the list? 😂
hulk and destroyer are both skyfather+ level characters now? wow first time hearing it myself
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So let's use them at full capacity, rather than low for one side or averages or whatever.Where did that whole average thing come from? I keep asking but no one answers. We have a full capacity rule, but there's no average rule...
-Pr- said it, and it makes sense in most cases. For example; Superman may only use 20% of his full unamplified power on a regular basis, and this is due to him being a hero, and not wanting to break Solomon Grundy's bones like dry wooden sticks, which would be his average because of the CIS rulings in place. This means that in a versus match, he isn't going to use planetary strength against Venom, nor is he going to use the heat of a star to kill Namor.
However in character he would dial it up against Galactus, Monarch, Darkseid, or Doomsday, because these guys on average may, or may not be in a bigger weight class. Full capacity can take on several meaning, such as fully healed, and capable of opetrating at optimal levels.
There are times that these lines will become blurred. For instance, if we were to look at Superman's closest clone Ultraman, we'll see that he doesn't hold back, and still loses to a holding back Superman even though they are the very same character. But, those times a few and far between which should on all counts tell us that it isn't the average.
It actually makes very little sense that Ultraman doesn't kill his twin, or come out on top the majority of the time. But that's just the way that things work in comics, while forum battles work slightly different.
Originally posted by leonidas
then i suppose you should read more. though not sure who said hulk was. /shrug
the tier thread you guys did yourself had destroyer at subskyfather level, you just said destroyer is skyfather+ (+would mean above)
that means the armor amped by zeus and hercules is above skyfather? well destroyer armor at it's peak of power wore by odin+amped by all asgardians was hopelessly outmatched by the celestials (I'd assume you want to use the peak of destroyer here since later versions are drastically less powerful)
if we going by peak performance (I know for some reason you are against it), someone non-essential like zatanna by herself at seven soldier has universal feats
h/p doomsday or sun dipped supes are both sub skyfather level, doomsday defeated darkseid a being with universal feats
Hal has single handedly shot through krona an abstract level being who was controlling all the emotional entities, or the time fighting evenly with parallax sinestro
zoom, in a forum setting, punched harder than superman, can punch millions times before slow brick like destroyer or hulk even conjure a thought, hunter zoom is the fastest comic book character there is, his speed can reach to infinity since he manipulate his own timeline
same with flash, IMP with the power of white dwarf star
Hulk at his best destroyed a planet in his world breaker mode, no big deal. destroyer at it's best i already mentioned, though if you consider fighting multiple celestials but LOSING an impressive showing by itself
no lowballing here just listing everyone's full capacity
if you don't want to use everyone's best feats, but their average then by all means.
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk couldnt ko Spiderman either and using high fts only, we are fighting a Hulk whom skin is harder than Adamantium that possess super speed with enough strength to bench a sun (at his weakest) with a healing factor that is nigh instant. Also possess high Abstract level strength with enough punching power to RIP through time, enough strength at his weakest to over power Celestial might. He also cant be bfred... matter manipulation doesnt work on him and again, all of this gets amplified by the second since he possess an infinite well of energy that even surprises the likes of the original Beyonder. Hulk stomps. This is debating to the best of their abilities which is complete trash.
Originally posted by MrMind
the tier thread you guys did yourself had destroyer at subskyfather level, you just said destroyer is skyfather+ (+would mean above)that means the armor amped by zeus and hercules is above skyfather? well destroyer armor at it's peak of power wore by odin+amped by all asgardians was hopelessly outmatched by the celestials (I'd assume you want to use the peak of destroyer here since later versions are drastically less powerful)
if we going by peak performance (I know for some reason you are against it), someone non-essential like zatanna by herself at seven soldier has universal feats
h/p doomsday or sun dipped supes are both sub skyfather level, doomsday defeated darkseid a being with universal feats
Hal has single handedly shot through krona an abstract level being who was controlling all the emotional entities, or the time fighting evenly with parallax sinestrozoom, in a forum setting, punched harder than superman, can punch millions times before slow brick like destroyer or hulk even conjure a thought, hunter zoom is the fastest comic book character there is, his speed can reach to infinity since he manipulate his own timeline
same with flash, IMP with the power of white dwarf star
Hulk at his best destroyed a planet in his world breaker mode, no big deal. destroyer at it's best i already mentioned, though if you consider fighting multiple celestials but LOSING an impressive showing by itself
no lowballing here just listing everyone's full capacity
if you don't want to use everyone's best feats, but their average then by all means.
I’m not sure what that wall of text is all about. I said the armour amped by Zeus and herb would be above skyfather. You seemed to agree. I said using high feats the armour loses. You seemed to agree. I don’t like high feats because it leads to the use of outliers answers resembles power set debating. Using standard versions I can see hulk see hulk and the armour winning. You don’t agree that’s cool beans.
I’m not sure what that wall of text is all about. I said the armour amped by Zeus and HERC would be above skyfather. You seemed to agree. I said using high feats the armour loses. You seemed to agree. I don’t like high feats because it leads to the use of outliers AND resembles power set debating. Using standard versions I can see hulk and the armour winning. You don’t agree that’s cool beans.
fukkin auto correct....
classic destroyer, using his best showings. 👆
also, after odin battled galactus and lost, what did he do:
and that's when galactus decided it was a good time to leave. coincidence? maybe....
and to top it all off--the armor here is POWERED by a skyfather. you think zeus and herc combined are....WEAKENED by the armor? sigh....
Originally posted by leonidas
https://imgur.com/a/qs47nyBclassic destroyer, using his best showings. 👆
also, after odin battled galactus and lost, what did he do:
and that's when galactus decided it was a good time to leave. coincidence? maybe....
and to top it all off--the armor here is POWERED by a skyfather. you think zeus and herc combined are....WEAKENED by the armor? sigh....
the first pic is mostly flowery language, odin did fear the destroyer and called it weapon supreme but these kind of statements came from so many big bad villains that first appeared in comics
second pic volstagg thought galactus feared them, it was only his own delusional opinion
I think the destroyer in this thread is way less powerful than the odin destroyer with 1 thousand years prep + asgard power+ fraction of all skyfathers/panetheons in the universe
so no I don't think he's above skyfather but to each his own
lol i post a scan that says odin fears it because it can destroy him and you hand wave it away as flowery language when odin looked legit scared. i never brought up the celestial destroyer so irrelevant strawman--that version was obviously well above skyfather. the galactus scan can be interpreted differently, but again, odin came back as the destroyer. you think he donned the armor because it makes him weaker?? lol and yet again--a SKYFATHER is inhabiting the armor here, along with herc. herc+zeus+armor<zeus?
but you're right--to each his own. 👆