Originally posted by leonidas
he's already been able to misdirect her. she's eff'd. storm can likewise be killed with a bullet and can be misdirected. she dies too.fantomex is pretty haxx. you need to be durable enough that he can't one shot you because it's enormously difficult to find reasons the misdirect will fail.
Couldn't one or the other "alpha strike"?
I mean, bloodlust
Originally posted by leonidas
if you can show him being blitzed by.....anyone, before executing a misdirect, i'd buy it. 👆her tp HAS been proven capable of penetrating his defenses, but i'm not sure she's at that level currently. and that was a CRAZY feat, given that phoenix jean and xavier couldn't read his mind. /shrug
She also read Juggernauts mind past his helmet.
But Onslaught, so could be bad writing.
If anything, forum setting would make her win even harder. She's faster, can rip the TP blockers out his mask(like she did in the fight), or just blast him.
It's a matchup issue. He'd beat Xavier, sure, but Psylocke doesn't need to rely on something he's immune to. The telepaths with secondary abilities would generally take him out though. Emma, Jean, Nate, Rachel, etc.
Originally posted by leonidas
if you can show him being blitzed by.....anyone, before executing a misdirect, i'd buy it. 👆
Originally posted by StyleTime
If anything, forum setting would make her win even harder. She's faster, can rip the TP blockers out his mask(like she did in the fight), or just blast him.It's a matchup issue. He'd beat Xavier, sure, but Psylocke doesn't need to rely on something he's immune to. The telepaths with secondary abilities would generally take him out though. Emma, Jean, Nate, Rachel, etc.
Practically every fight with every martial artist he's ever had.
Interesting.
Fun fact: Danny lost to Whirlwind in a straight up fight. Then he went ninja, tracked him to his home undetected, and beat his ass.
This totally doesn't help in a fight, but I could see him taking Fantomex out in a team comic that way. Same way he used traps and such to pin Spidey down in mid air, so he couldn't possibly dodge his Iron Fist, no matter what his SS told him.
I'll elaborate on what I mean here, and I'll stick with the Remender interpretation of misdirection everyone is so keen on, even though it was the vast minority of Fantomex depictions. Subsequent writers, by and large, returned to the original Morrison style, which was basically just a sleight of hand. No actual visuals.
Psylocke still has much of her old telekinetic potential. When a Shadow King possessed Proteus possessed Psylocke(possessception), Psylocke was armored up in a giant telekinetic butterfly rampaging King Kong style. Attack helicopters fired at her to no effect. She simultaneously created a hurricane of free-flying psiblades that battled the X-Men(Fantomex included), the assault squad, and attacked citizens. They cut Rogue up, shredded E.V.A., and destroyed the attack copters.
https://postimg.cc/wtKqmTRb
https://postimg.cc/WFTs5WnG
https://postimg.cc/zLnJSZnD
https://postimg.cc/D8My7cvh
https://postimg.cc/tZj4LCXV
Even if we dismiss that because Shadow King was in control, Psylocke displayed similar prowess when she fought and killed Magneto. Including making a shield that blocked his attacks pretty well.
https://postimg.cc/Ny3hQhHs
https://postimg.cc/KkB6z9Pn
And she's blocked fighter jet gun fire while multitasking, so Fantomex's hand guns aren't relevant.
https://postimg.cc/34Xq7kh1
Additonally, we know she has ripped the TP blockers out of Fantomex's mask during a fight.
https://postimg.cc/9wfYS0Qr
In a forum setting, even if we're generous and assume Fantomex acts first, Psylocke can just wrap herself in a TK bubble and play the illusion out. She already knows how his power works. Once she rips his mask off with TK, she can scan him to verify it's really Fantomex. Then he gets TK blasted into a wall like last time the fought.
CIS will prevent her from killing him because of their romantic/sexual past, but a combo TK/TP is pretty rough for Fantomex to deal with.
I'm typing in a rush, so I apologize if I'm not clear. I can answer specific stuff if anyone has questions or disagreements.
i'm still not buying it. the starting distance wins him the match. you're saying she knows she'd be in a misdirect. i disagree. he could make her THINK she waited it out. i've never seen anyone scan him while in a misdirect--doesn't really make sense using dark beast's definition of his reality skewing powers. if you're powerful enough you can break it, but i've never seen a tp'er do it via tp. he could also just make her THINK she scanned him then shoot her. again, in a comic this would go very differently, maybe. when they battled in your scan he didn't even try a misdirect. when his minds were split, she wandered through a misdirect and STILL couldn't see through it. his power was amped, but still, i think it revealed the nature of the power. her tp wouldn't let her see through it and she wouldn't have time to break his blockers before she was dead imo.
I see your objections, so I'll clarify.
No one scanned him during a misdirect because he wears TP blockers. Psylocke can rip them out though, as we've seen.
He did try misdirecting her. Those orange-tinted images in the background are him trying to misdirect her, but she's probing his mind. He started the scene before and continues throughout the fight.
She can track him at that point, kinda like when Wolverine switched to relying on smell to track Fantomex. He just seemed resigned to his fate as Psylocke closed in on him mentally.
https://postimg.cc/hQ0tvZ8t
She could have ended it right at the start tbh, but she wanted information. "Pray I don't get bored with the search. Once that happens, I'll kill you...". Everything we've seen indicates she could.
Originally posted by leonidas
when his minds were split, she wandered through a misdirect and STILL couldn't see through it. his power was amped, but still, i think it revealed the nature of the power. her tp wouldn't let her see through it and she wouldn't have time to break his blockers before she was dead imo.
Right after holding the other Fantomex dead to rights, granted this one can't misdirect.
https://postimg.cc/nCv8tQF0
https://postimg.cc/D8VVDcTS
Originally posted by cdtm
Interesting.Fun fact: Danny lost to Whirlwind in a straight up fight. Then he went ninja, tracked him to his home undetected, and beat his ass.
This totally doesn't help in a fight, but I could see him taking Fantomex out in a team comic that way. Same way he used traps and such to pin Spidey down in mid air, so he couldn't possibly dodge his Iron Fist, no matter what his SS told him.
Storm wins regardless of setting. Your powers still activate like normal during even Remender misdirection. If she throws a tornado at him, it doesn't matter if she knows exactly where he is. The aoe will still get him.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I see your objections, so I'll clarify.No one scanned him during a misdirect because he wears TP blockers. Psylocke can rip them out though, as we've seen.
He did try misdirecting her. Those orange-tinted images in the background are him trying to misdirect her, but she's probing his mind. He started the scene before and continues throughout the fight.
She can track him at that point, kinda like when Wolverine switched to relying on smell to track Fantomex. He just seemed resigned to his fate as Psylocke closed in on him mentally.
https://postimg.cc/hQ0tvZ8tShe could have ended it right at the start tbh, but she wanted information. "Pray I don't get bored with the search. Once that happens, I'll kill you...". Everything we've seen indicates she could.
Weapon XIII? They were on a date when that happened, so Psylocke wasn't trying to see through anything. She fought him later, and took him out handily. Demon Bear came out, but replace him with a TK blast and it's the same result.
https://postimg.cc/S2rX5KXs
https://postimg.cc/7Cf8jHKVRight after holding the other Fantomex dead to rights, granted this one can't misdirect.
https://postimg.cc/nCv8tQF0
https://postimg.cc/D8VVDcTS
i'll buy that once she is in his mind she can't be misdirected, but she still has to remove his blockers first, otherwise the misdirect will work just fine. she can wrap herself in a bubble i guess, but he could make her think he gets in close, and make her think she takes out his blockers, only to end up getting shot in the head before she realizes it was an illusion. like i said, he's tricked her before. though the time i'm thinking about she may have been acting as the horseman of death. still, becoming a horseman never equals a decrease in power.
as for why this version of fantomex is used in the forum, it's pretty easy--this was when he was the coolest, and when his powers were really explored. at least imo. and since it's full capacity in the forum, that makes this run in x-force the one most referenced.
we could argue quickdraw--tk vs misdirect--but that doesn't really get us anywhere i guess. you have convinced me of a couple things--if she CAN remove the blockers she can get in his head and be immune to the misdirect. he almost never uses it in the middle of fights any way from what i've seen. she would def beat him in cqc. i'm still of the opinion he wins if he gets the misdirect off first because he'd simply paint a narrative that has her believing she won so she'd lower her guard. we've seen him describe a reality skew in the past, though it failed against dark beast:
and here is the scene i was talking about where he misdirected betsy:
she was acting as death, but her psy powers were great enough to keep phoenix out until he misdirected her into lowering her defenses.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Danny would beat him straight up going by on panel showings. He only loses if we restrict Fantomex's showings to what was essentially a one arc amp, which is what the forum has decided to do with him for whatever reason.Storm wins regardless of setting. Your powers still activate like normal during even Remender misdirection. If she throws a tornado at him, it doesn't matter if she knows exactly where he is. The aoe will still get him.
in a comic danny might win, because fantomex wouldn't kill him, but in a forum setting he'd lose every time. storm knows him well and if she did some huge aoe attack could take him out, but again, a simple misdirect that shows him dying would be enough. not sure she'd go aoe from the start but if she didn't, she'd be dead too. even if we don't use his better showings, a more simple illusion would distract. all he needs is a chance to shoot either in the head.
Originally posted by leonidas
i'll buy that once she is in his mind she can't be misdirected, but she still has to remove his blockers first, otherwise the misdirect will work just fine. she can wrap herself in a bubble i guess, but he could make her think he gets in close, and make her think she takes out his blockers, only to end up getting shot in the head before she realizes it was an illusion. like i said, he's tricked her before. though the time i'm thinking about she may have been acting as the horseman of death. still, becoming a horseman never equals a decrease in power.
Originally posted by leonidas
as for why this version of fantomex is used in the forum, it's pretty easy--this was when he was the coolest, and when his powers were really explored. at least imo. and since it's full capacity in the forum, that makes this run in x-force the one most referenced.
Originally posted by leonidas
we could argue quickdraw--tk vs misdirect--but that doesn't really get us anywhere i guess. you have convinced me of a couple things--if she CAN remove the blockers she can get in his head and be immune to the misdirect. he almost never uses it in the middle of fights any way from what i've seen. she would def beat him in cqc. i'm still of the opinion he wins if he gets the misdirect off first because he'd simply paint a narrative that has her believing she won so she'd lower her guard. we've seen him describe a reality skew in the past, though it failed against dark beast:and here is the scene i was talking about where he misdirected betsy:
she was acting as death, but her psy powers were great enough to keep phoenix out until he misdirected her into lowering her defenses.
There's a couple of problems with this scene though. Primarily, Psylocke didn't have TK here during Remender's run, and Fantomex's TP blockers would keep her from reading him. Remenderlocke and Remendomex are practically separate characters powerset wise from their standard counterparts. Secondly, Psylocke lowering her defenses doesn't mean she completely dropped everything. That is AoA Jean. She was the superior telepath, and didn't need much leeway to get into Psylocke's head. Even a slight falter would do. Psylocke's TK is so wildly beyond the firepower Fantomex has that he can't really brute force his way in, even if she weakens the shields. Lastly, as with Weapon XIII, Psylocke wasn't fighting back. AoA Kurt teleported her to E.V.A. and she agreed to have a talk with Fantomex. There wasn't actually an effort until it was too late.
https://postimg.cc/mhhZ9KDQ
https://postimg.cc/CdthsJB9
In a fight scenario where Psylocke isn't brainwashed from the Death Seed, knows from previous victories how Fantomex's powers work, and has TK similar to her Claremont/New Age levels, why would she drop her shield until she scans him?
Originally posted by leonidas
in a comic danny might win, because fantomex wouldn't kill him, but in a forum setting he'd lose every time. storm knows him well and if she did some huge aoe attack could take him out, but again, a simple misdirect that shows him dying would be enough. not sure she'd go aoe from the start but if she didn't, she'd be dead too. even if we don't use his better showings, a more simple illusion would distract. all he needs is a chance to shoot either in the head.
Storm, sure, if she lets him cover the distance to make the shot. We can't give full capacity to Fantomex but give Storm only half capacity. If they're both operating at peak, she flash freezes the air in his general vicinity for a Fantomex Popsicle.