The Anti-Vaxx Movement and idiots.

Originally posted by Deadline
Oh really, whys that?

EDIT:

Oh I just noticed this. 😉 See what I mean.

I don't usually read your posts because you've proven yourself to be a stupid retard both here and in comic versus so I'm not sure: are you an anti-vaxxer Deadline? Given your displayed lack of intelligence I wouldn't be surprised.

Originally posted by samhain
Oh yeah of course, that was the reason for my slight hyperbole. As Bentley basically said; there are far more efficient ways for The New World Order to poison the masses.

It's a stupid argument. As I pointed out governments have already posioned their citizens like this. They disguise it as healthcare.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And I mean it too. Furthermore, for the most part anti-vaxxers seem to largely be made up of liberals, so for the most part I'd be having liberals put down. It isn't a liberal point of view you stupid moron.

I don't usually read your posts because you've proven yourself to be a stupid retard both here and in comic versus so I'm not sure: are you an anti-vaxxer Deadline? Given your displayed lack of intelligence I wouldn't be surprised.

https://medium.com/the-future-is-electric/conservatives-are-now-the-dominant-anti-vaxxers-23086800d689

Conservatives are now the dominant anti-vaxxers

I knew there was a reason I thought most conservatives were retards. 👆

Originally posted by Deadline
You are aware that governments have done secret experiments on their populations right? You do realise that you could also argue that the other experiments were impossible to keep secret as well?

EDIT: It's like trying to argue that a serial killer won't kill eventhough he's done it before. Completely illogical.

You know the easiest way to spot an impossible action? First you need to check if you need it to be all encompasing. If that's the case then you should start to question whether there is no other simple explanation. Things are never explained by One Single Logic. That kind of reductionism is the essence of wishful thinking, an idea that wants to satisfy itself more than it wants to be truthful.

Here you are proposing that an easily available product for everyone over all the countries in the world is distributed by some reason to be noxious. Do you realize for how long vaccination has existed? In how many countries they are used all over different decades? The idea that there is a single goal that has been in the works for that long by that many people is already suspicious.

So you forcibly need to modify your stance to keep it "happening" to make sure it's real and sound real. You'll start making up dates when an event could've triggered the idea of using vaccines as a vector. That means it's not particularly easy. Why not use a more easy to disguise method? "Well, that doesn't mean it cannot be done" it's not a real answer.

The case is not helped by vaccines bringing up a couple of generic fears people have: they fear doctors and they fear being registered in official books. The fear of getting injected by a mystery cocktail. This is all very well known and documented. Why choose a method of distributing toxic elements if people are going to fear it very easily? Isn't it more logic to believe that these fears are what caused anti-vaxxer feelings to beging with?

Why not use cash or credit cards to contaminate people instead?

Originally posted by samhain
Oh yeah of course, that was the reason for my slight hyperbole. As Bentley basically said; there are far more efficient ways for The New World Order to poison the masses.

Originally posted by Bentley
You know the easiest way to spot an impossible action? First you need to check if you need it to be all encompasing. If that's the case then you should start to question whether there is no other simple explanation. Things are never explained by One Single Logic. That kind of reductionism is the essence of wishful thinking, an idea that wants to satisfy itself more than it wants to be truthful.

This is your purely subjective opinion.

Originally posted by Bentley

Here you are proposing that an easily available product for everyone over all the countries in the world is distributed by some reason to be noxious. Do you realize for how long vaccination has existed? In how many countries they are used all over different decades? The idea that there is a single goal that has been in the works for that long by that many people is already suspicious.

Are you actually trying to rationalize why people do such things and as such impling this theory is dubious? No where did I state that vaccines have always been poisonous or the duration. I recently heard about this theory I suspect that it may not have always been a problem. But the fact of the matter is even if I said it had been for the last 2 years you would probably question it anyway (not that I neccesarily have a problem with that). You seem to have a problem with it on principle. It doesn't seem suspcious at all and you seem to be quite ignorant of conspiracies if you know anything about them you would know that there have been a lot of conspiracies which have involved lots of people and have gone on for decades

Originally posted by Bentley

So you forcibly need to modify your stance to keep it "happening" to make sure it's real and sound real. You'll start making up dates when an event could've triggered the idea of using vaccines as a vector. That means it's not particularly easy. Why not use a more easy to disguise method? "Well, that doesn't mean it cannot be done" it's not a real answer.

Stating that "doesn't mean it can't be done" is a perfectly good answer because the argument isn't wether it's true the argument is wether it's plausible.

Originally posted by Bentley

The case is not helped by vaccines bringing up a couple of generic fears people have: they fear doctors and they fear being registered in official books. The fear of getting injected by a mystery cocktail. This is all very well known and documented. Why choose a method of distributing toxic elements if people are going to fear it very easily? Isn't it more logic to believe that these fears are what caused anti-vaxxer feelings to beging with?

Why not use cash or credit cards to contaminate people instead?

Because there are a lof of conspiracies where you disguise healthcare which are really secret tests. Besides telling people that they need to vaccinate their children in order to protect them from disease is a strong motivation to get it done and I don't need any study to prove that. Not to mention that if you use enough propaganda you can convince people of anything. The fact you can brainwash white people into thinking that they are inherently racist and bad proves it can be done. Obviously you've heard about the Covington kids, you maybe aware that they recieved death threats and people were justifying murder and violence against them and it wasn't an international scandal. Also I can show you a youtube clip of a black comedian telling a white Australian fans and interviewer he's racist and the fan just took it with a smile on his face. You can convince people of a lot of things.

Anyway here are some other conspiracies.

Mind control experiments by the American and Canadian government.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/19/world/canada-will-pay-50-s-test-victims.html

In a footnote to an unusual chapter of the cold war, Canada has agreed to compensate victims of psychiatric experiments carried out mainly in the 1950's and financed in part by the Central Intelligence Agency.

This is a conspiracy that involves two governments. Now the question hers is what can we extrapolate from this? The American government and Canadian goverment are probably still doing mind control experiments, not only that it's not unreasonable that both these goverments are sharing information with other intelligence agenceis around the world. For example the American goverment during WW2 traded information with the Japanese on experiments that they had done on American troops. So we can guess that this stuff is still going for two reasons.

1. Evil people usualy don't stop doing evil unless there are serious consequences for their actions, and there haven't been serious consequences.
2. There are a lot of conspirances and were keeping finding out about new ones.

Here's two more

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/04/true-story-behind-appalling-tuskegee-syphilis-experiment/

Controversial research programs, unethical experimentation, and human trials have been part of the medical field for centuries. It doesn’t make it any less wrong, but certain scientists with questionable ethics have gotten away with a lot in the name of, well, science. The more (in)famous examples of wayward science include eugenics sterilization, electroshock therapy, ionizing radiation experiments, and the CIA program MKULTRA. But the government sponsored Tuskegee syphilis experiment, a program that ran for forty years in Macon County, Alabama during the mid-20th century, is one of the more appalling and deceitful of the bunch.

In a similar study, this time to test penicillin’s effectiveness in treating syphilis and other STDs, researchers led by Dr. John Charles Cutler from the United States (funded by the Public Health Services, the Pan American Health Sanitary Bureau, and the National Institutes of Health) headed to Guatemala in 1946 and found prostitutes who had syphilis, getting them to then give it to unsuspecting Guatemalan soldiers, mental health patients, and prisoners. They also directly infected certain individuals by “…direct inoculations made from syphilis bacteria poured into the men’s penises and on forearms and faces that were slightly abraded … or in a few cases through spinal punctures.” It isn’t known how many people died as a result of this as the results from the study were never published.

Bayer scandal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-hm9Kp8QQ

Note that the conspiracy doesn't just involve a company, according to the video the American Government allowed them to dump the product in Spain, France and Japan. As far as I'm aware the product was also in Latin American and Asian countries.

These are not the only examples. The point is when you know stuff like this and people tell you that governments might be posioning people with vaccines you should take it seriously because it might be true.

Anti-vaccers are idiotic conspiracists. See example. ^

You terrible fail at Reading my point Alfheim.

If you need everyone to be in cahoots with a conspiracy then it's wishful thinking. If you need to rethread and revisit a belief to better match reality then it's wishful thinking. For me the problem with anti-vaxxers is that they appear in widely different countries with different health infrastructures and with no proof or whatsoever to justify their claims.

Your examples fail terribly at providing a logic for the scope you are trying to defend. While horrifying and illegal they make sense from a scientific perspective. Because to do anything remotely useful as far as research you need to have a properly designed control group, which explains why the scope needs to be reduced. Because someone did shady stuff for a few hundred individuals twice, ten times or even fifty times in the past it doesn't mean pulling the same thing over millions of human beings over several contents with no defined timespan becomes reasonable. That's comparing a three headed horse embrio with an unicorn. There is simply no possible way to compare as far as the math goes.

I'm not counting the Bayer one because I rather have a page that remotely looks like a reputable source instead of a YouTube video.

If I try to look rationality in the irrational is because some of these claims are not sensible. I would never rule out the possibility of a small incident or an accident that people try to hide regarding vaccination that might have happened at some point in the past. Saying vaccination is a weapon of mass destruction given we know scientifically it boosted the lifespan of several generations of humans beings… Well, even if they were poisonous they'd still be better than the other option (against, just run the maths)

Originally posted by Bentley

You terrible fail at Reading my point Alfheim.

Dunno about that Bentley [or inseert previous nickname if he has one].

Originally posted by Bentley

If you need everyone to be in cahoots with a conspiracy then it's wishful thinking. If you need to rethread and revisit a belief to better match reality then it's wishful thinking. For me the problem with anti-vaxxers is that they appear in widely different countries with different health infrastructures and with no proof or whatsoever to justify their claims .

I kinda dealt with this in the previous post as I said previously that's just your opinion. What do you mean by 'everyone'? As I have proven governments can work with each other to do horriblle things to their citizens. As I have shown that the American government and the Canadian government secretly did tests on their citizens. Also if you want extra information on what America did with Japan here it is:

https://medium.com/@jeff_kaye/department-of-justice-official-releases-letter-admitting-u-s-amnesty-of-unit-731-war-criminals-9b7da41d8982

This appears to have been the first time that any U.S. government official admitted publicly and officially that the U.S. had proposed an amnesty for the members of Japan’s Unit 731 and assorted components, known to have murdered thousands of prisoners in illegal biological experiments, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians in biological warfare operations predominantly in China, but also the Soviet Union, from 1939 until nearly the end of World War II.

Do you even understand why I gave you these examples? My understanding is that you find this conspiracy theory unlikey because it has so many people involved in it i.e numerous governments. I've already shown you a conspiracy with three goverments, Canada, America and Japan. Japan was not involved in MK Ultra but America wanted information on horrible things that they did. The purpose of this examples was to show that intelligence agencies from different countries share information on horrible things that they do to people

Who is rethreading and revisting anything? Again it seems to me that's just your opinion that the antivaxxers are doing that.

Originally posted by Bentley

Your examples fail terribly at providing a logic for the scope you are trying to defend. While horrifying and illegal they make sense from a scientific perspective. Because to do anything remotely useful as far as research you need to have a properly designed control group, which explains why the scope needs to be reduced. Because someone did shady stuff for a few hundred individuals twice, ten times or even fifty times in the past it doesn't mean pulling the same thing over millions of human beings over several contents with no defined timespan becomes reasonable. That's comparing a three headed horse embrio with an unicorn. There is simply no possible way to compare as far as the math goes.

Really? See this.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/09/one-shocking-cia-programs-time-project-mkultra/

According to the hearing report, “eighty-six universities or institutions were involved,”[12] and “185 non-government researchers and assistants” worked on these projects.[13] “Physicians, toxicologists, and other specialists in mental [and] narcotics” were lured into MKUltra through the provision of grants that were “made under ostensible research foundation auspices, thereby concealing the CIA’s interest from the specialist’s institution.”[14]

For some of the 12 hospitals that participated in Project MKUltra, tests were conducted on terminal cancer patients – presumably because the experiments were anticipated to have long-lasting detrimental, if not lethal, effects.[15]

How many people do you think were involved in these experiments over a year? Thousands? As far as I'm aware that doesn't include Canada, so yes over a year tens of thousands of people could have been experimented on. Do you think it's plausible that the French, German and British were doing something similar in their countries? When you take that into consideration that number of victims could go into the hundreds of thousands or millions, especially when you consider that the project lasted officially from the 50 to the 70s.

Also THIS:

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/alcohol-prohibition-poisoning-program/

The U.S. Government began to maliciously poison certain alcohol supplies to attempt to keep people from drinking it. Edward Behr, author of Prohibition: Thirteen Years that Changed America, wrote that by 1927 more than 50,000 Americans may have been fatally poisoned by alcohol produced under the auspices of the U.S. government; many more people were rendered blind or paralyzed. Indeed, the government gave no regard for the lives destroyed upon consumption. In a sick irony, their policies were intentionally destroying lives, while simultaneously being promoted as saving lives.

Is potentially 50,000 + big enough for you Bentley? Yoiu go right ahead and try to argue that just because it's more than 50,000 that doesn't mean that they wouldn't posion millions. Anyone with a shread of survival instinct is going to be concerned.

Furthermore I'm not even sure wether the size of the population is an issue when a lot of information is recorded and you have computers with massive proceesing power and speed.. The reason for this being done isn't neccessarily about experimentation but about population control ie killing people or weakening them eg autism. Also bare in mind that people involved in thsese conspiracies don't neccessarily think rationally their sociapathic control freaks, it's not a good idea to arm and train terrorists hasn't stopped them from doing it many times.

Originally posted by Bentley

I'm not counting the Bayer one because I rather have a page that remotely looks like a reputable source instead of a YouTube video.

It was late and was tired, this better:

https://realfarmacy.com/bayer-and-us-government-knowingly-gave-hiv-to-thousands-of-children/

Unable to sell their Factor 8 in the US, Bayer, with the FDA’s permission, (yes that’s right, the FDA allowed Bayer to potentially kill thousands) sold this HIV infected medicine to Argentina, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, and Singapore after February 1984, according to the documents obtained by the NY Times. The documents showed how Cutter Biological, a division of Bayer, shipped more than 100,000 vials of unheated concentrate, worth more than $4 million, after it began selling the safer product.

The result of this sale of HIV tainted medication ended up infecting tens of thousands and killing thousands. Thousands of innocent children and adults have died at the hand of this corporation and no punitive action has been taken against them. The health department leaders in Argentina, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, and Singapore were all imprisoned, while the US FDA continues down its hellish path.

Originally posted by Bentley

If I try to look rationality in the irrational is because some of these claims are not sensible. I would never rule out the possibility of a small incident or an accident that people try to hide regarding vaccination that might have happened at some point in the past. Saying vaccination is a weapon of mass destruction given we know scientifically it boosted the lifespan of several generations of humans beings… Well, even if they were poisonous they'd still be better than the other option (against, just run the maths)

Whatever, I suspect there is evidence that shows otherwise for example I've heard it can cause autism. I dunno I think you can possibly live long with autism but it's not good.

facepalm Somebody do something about not being able to quote posts.

Originally posted by Deadline
facepalm Somebody do something about not being able to quote posts.

When you can't quote someone (due to certain characters), just use the quick-quote function. You're welcome.

As I told you earlier, for me there is a huge problem regarding scope to give any credit to this specific "conspiracy". You just mentioned that you needed thousands of people behind some small mind control experiment that was meant to be carried in secrecy. Now imagine how much people would need to be informed if you try to pull off a much bigger Project in full secrecy. We would be talking about hundreds of thousands people over the world, none of which would tell the secret? All of which are evil and irrationnal?

The more arguments you bring the more unlikely it is to believe this specific project because, as I said, it's easier to kill more people by just convincing them vaccines are dangerous and making a random disease appear in anti-vaxxer populations. The claims of autism are way too small to conclude anything other than a coïncidence or unwanted secondary effect that was previously unknown. Statistically the effects seem rather insignificant so far.

My problem, once again, is all about the numbers: they don't fit the narrative at all. You are better off doing practically anything else to achieve a superior effect.

Originally posted by Bentley

As I told you earlier, for me there is a huge problem regarding scope to give any credit to this specific "conspiracy". You just mentioned that you needed thousands of people behind some small mind control experiment that was meant to be carried in secrecy. Now imagine how much people would need to be informed if you try to pull off a much bigger Project in full secrecy. We would be talking about hundreds of thousands people over the world, none of which would tell the secret? All of which are evil and irrationnal?

What you said earlier is irrelevant because now you are resorting to twisting my words and taking what I said out of context because you're losing the argument. A small mind control experiement? facepalm Did you not see the number of instuitions that were involved and that was just in America. It didn't just involve America but Canada as well, as I explained which you completely ignored unpurpose because you're losing the argument is that it's likely that the French, German and British were doing similar things and as I pointed out intelligence agencies share information on horrible things that they do. British intelligence agencies have a long history of working with American intelligence agencies so there's a a good chance that they were. In fact I've probably seen evidence of this but just can't be bothered to go get it.

The problem with you're argument is that the same logic that you're applying to the vaccine conspiracy theory could be applied to the mind control experiments. It potentially involved millions of people, happened over decades and involved different countries.

Originally posted by Bentley

The more arguments you bring the more unlikely it is to believe this specific project because, as I said, it's easier to kill more people by just convincing them vaccines are dangerous and making a random disease appear in anti-vaxxer populations.

And again what you said is irrelevant because in reality people have disguised secret experiements as providing healthcare. And as I said again it doesn't have to be experiments but it can be to simply posion people.

Originally posted by Bentley

The claims of autism are way too small to conclude anything other than a coïncidence or unwanted secondary effect that was previously unknown. Statistically the effects seem rather insignificant so far.

My problem, once again, is all about the numbers: they don't fit the narrative at all. You are better off doing practically anything else to achieve a superior effect

Well if you can prove that as a fact that's the only good point you've made. However I suspect that is another classic case of somebody like yourself making claims that you state are fact then with some research it's found to be either untrue or not clear cut like you're making it.

You're entitled to think what you want but just try to make a better argument next time.

How am I switching arguments? As I told you from the beginning, this is not something you can hope to hide due to the sheer size of the amount of people that take vaccines. You said thousands of people and international institutions were involved into a much smaller mind-control experiment which made more sense because it had a sample group and had a clear goal. But the idea of poisoning people through vaccines would need a much bigger amount of people involved and following a much looser goal.

Give me a common enemy and classified documents and I can convince a few scientists to try to come up with a mind-control solution before the enemy does. How am I supposed to convince much more people than the population of their own countries and their own families need to be thinned out by poisonous vaccines?

Please notice that my argument is not "there cannot be any kind of foul play involving vaccines", my point is that presenting it as an encompasing conspiracy spawning decades and different countries is dubious and depending on the scale people are arguing, downright impossible. I can only argue it as a blanket statement because we aren't going into any specifics on how this actually would work.

Please note that the anecdotical evidence you brought solves the problem of scale, how can you hope to prove a "bigger" conspiracy can be done without showing me a conspiracy that is actually bigger and has worked in the past? Nothing but that kind of evidence would be actual proof.

Originally posted by Bentley
How am I switching arguments? As I told you from the beginning, this is not something you can hope to hide due to the sheer size of the amount of people that take vaccines. You said thousands of people and international institutions were involved into a much smaller mind-control experiment which made more sense because it had a sample group and had a clear goal. But the idea of poisoning people through vaccines would need a much bigger amount of people involved and following a much looser goal.

It seems that I'm repeating myself here but my point was that all the arguments that you're making for vaccines could be said about the mind control experiments. The point about the institutions and the people involved wasn't for you to ignore but was to point out the scale of it. It's not as big but it's still massive. It was international, happened over decades and had potentially millions of victims. I also don't think that when you live in a society were people have their health records in databases and you have computes with massive processing speeds is going to cause a problem for a control group. You can put looser goals in italics all you want it's still pretty retarded to think it's such a big deal

Originally posted by Bentley

Give me a common enemy and classified documents and I can convince a few scientists to try to come up with a mind-control solution before the enemy does. How am I supposed to convince much more people than the population of their own countries and their own families need to be thinned out by poisonous vaccines?

Please notice that my argument is not "there cannot be any kind of foul play involving vaccines", my point is that presenting it as an encompasing conspiracy spawning decades and different countries is dubious and depending on the scale people are arguing, downright impossible. I can only argue it as a blanket statement because we aren't going into any specifics on how this actually would work.

It's naive to think they were doing what they were doing because of a common enemy they did it because they were sadists. At this point I almost stop taking you serioulsy you're actually trying to argue how you would convince evil people to poision millions of people? Are you serious? How about the obvious, their evil. As I pointed out to you secret experiments have traditionaly been disguised as healthcare. Yes I know about you're argument about scale but that's faulty logic. You have evil people in every single country who think similar and as I've already shown they share information and work together to do horrible things. You're just making a silly assumption because it's not on the same scale that they wouldn't cooperate on something bigger. You can convince people to do all manner of crazy things. If you must know the Nazis had a lot of support they had support in America, Birtain, Ireland all over the world, and you want to make the argument that it would be hard to convince people to poision millions? Yes and the creation of the Nazis was part of a conspiracy. Another thing to add in conspiracies not everyone knows the true objective for example with the mind control experiments not everyone knew why they were doing what they were doing. A reason why they would posion millions of people is population control there are too many people on the planet.

Like I said that is you're subjective opinion. For the most part I've already explained how it could work.

Originally posted by Bentley

Please note that the anecdotical evidence you brought solves the problem of scale, how can you hope to prove a "bigger" conspiracy can be done without showing me a conspiracy that is actually bigger and has worked in the past? Nothing but that kind of evidence would be actual proof.

Not sure it's all anecdotal. I've already explained why it can work on a bigger scale. However this point you're making illustrates the point Im making about you're argument. I don't have to give an example of something bigger that has worked, it can still give an example of something which is still massive but not on the same scale. If everybody was to follow you're logic nothing would get done. How do you think people convinced people that they could land on the moon? Did they have any craft previoulsy that could do it? No they clearly had very good aircrafts but they extrapolated that it was possible.

Massive is ultimately a relative term. We can't really argue this in purely floatting numbers and we are just guessing on the specifics of how this would work. How many people would be affected by a vaccine event? Billions? Hundreds of millions? You are not controlling what you put in this people at any point so samples of your crime would be everywhere in most local farmacies. Every other experiment you provided plays in the opposite direction: it works because the focus group or the toxic disposal is negligeable statistically. These conspiracies are different by nature.

Regarding sadism or cruelty from people who acted on these studies, please notice that there are many social experiments proving that authority can make people perfom unethical acts. These people don't have to be "evil" as a matter of fact, they are more likely just swayed by arguments and authority since we have scientifc facts that's enough to make people do evil stuff.

Again, the only actual proof would be to provide a bigger conspiracy, but this doesn't mean I don't take your argument into account. For me your claim goes into the falsehood territory that complotists could pull off a scheme of "any size" which is a mathematically dubious claim.

Could you poison populations to thin them out? Sure, but vaccines still remain a terrible way to do it: every local farmacy would have the active substance and proof of your complot. Poison coins, credit cards, water, dispose of low level radioactive elements in big cities. If there is no control group you don't actually need any medical element involved in your task. I think this is a pretty fragile argument honestly and the fact we haven't seen any statistically relevant proof of it working is even more suspicious.

Bottomline: poisoning needs to be statistically relevant, most conspiracies you cited want to be statistically irrelevant.

No offence guys but, why would you post so much? Truth is anti-vaxxers are dangerous and deluded no global conspiracy exists and to say anything else is mental.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
No offence guys but, why would you post so much?

Anti-vaxxers are not the idiots. Those who force vaccines on their children are. All you have to do is read the insert on vaccines to learn how dangerous they are. Used to always (willingly) get the flu shot when I was younger and literally every single time I did it made me severely sick for several weeks at least. So yeah, f*** people who tried to force vaccinations on people. I'll never take another vaccine as long as I live as long as I'm conscious unless several people hold me down & force it on me.

As long as those who are pro-vaccine take their shots why does it matter to them if someone who is against vaccines doesn't take them?

Pro-vaxxers claim that vaccines work so they should be protected against disease or virus or whatever so what's the problem? Don't come at me w/the BS argument that some people aren't able to be vaxxed so I have to take vaccines to protect them. Sorry, but I shouldn't be forced to take some poison (and yes, it is poison) into my body because someone else can't be vaxxed.

I suggest everyone watch the movie "Vaxxed" to have your eyes opened to the truth of the danger of vaccines. You can pick it up on Amazon.

It's called herd immunity, look it up.