avengers amalgam vs jla amalgam

stealing from big al, but hopefully a little more competitive. these are amalgam creations made from each team. consider the average versions of each character over the last 10-15 years or so.

avengers

hulk+thor+pym+scarlet witch+vision+black knight+sersi+spectrum

jla

superman+batman+ww+martian+hal+firestorm+hawkman+atom

power stack or don't, doesn't matter to me. they are all one being, starting on opposite sides of a jupiter sized planet and neither knows initially where the other is.

who's left standing?

Originally posted by leonidas
stealing from big al, but hopefully a little more competitive. these are amalgam creations made from each team. consider the average versions of each character over the last 10-15 years or so.

avengers

hulk+thor+pym+scarlet witch+vision+black knight+sersi+spectrum

jla

superman+batman+ww+martian+hal+firestorm+hawkman+atom

power stack or don't, doesn't matter to me. they are all one being, starting on opposite sides of a jupiter sized planet and neither knows initially where the other is.

who's left standing?

So just from scanning the list....

Superman will cancel out the Hulks strength, but Hulk's healing factor will be superior to Supermans.

Martian can duplicate Visions intangibility and adds the psychic attack route to the equation

firstorm > sersei

atom > pym

Superman speed > Spectrum speed

however....

JL amalgam now has a two fold weakness, weak to fire and vulnerable to magic.

Which Thor and Witch can easily capitalize on....if they weren't auto shielded by the GL ring. They also have Diana's bracers I assume.

Pym => Batman in intelligence I assume, but Batman is >> Pym in combat smarts.

Overall, it looks like JLA amalgam is just a bit too much for Marvel amalgam.

Chaos magic has ways of getting around most defenses.

That it does...
It's a close fight.

Much better fight, but Superman and MM would be the deciding factors here. MM has good enough mind control to immediately ko anyone here, and still keep pace with Scarlet Witch, while Superman lobotomizes her inside of a picosecond.

Originally posted by Damborgson
So just from scanning the list....

Superman will cancel out the Hulks strength, but Hulk's healing factor will be superior to Supermans.

Martian can duplicate Visions intangibility and adds the psychic attack route to the equation

firstorm > sersei

atom > pym

Superman speed > Spectrum speed

however....

JL amalgam now has a two fold weakness, weak to fire and vulnerable to magic.

Which Thor and Witch can easily capitalize on....if they weren't auto shielded by the GL ring. They also have Diana's bracers I assume.

Pym => Batman in intelligence I assume, but Batman is >> Pym in combat smarts.

Overall, it looks like JLA amalgam is just a bit too much for Marvel amalgam.

This is rather biased in some points....

Atom means the amalgam is immune to magic.

MMH has a pretty decent HF too.

Also, why would the JLAs weaknesses stack, but not the Avengers? Scarlet Witch, for example, is weak to a fist to the face. I assume you cancel it out with Hulk's HF and Thor's durability, so why doesn't MMH's weakness get cancelled out by Superman etc?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is rather biased in some points....

Atom means the amalgam is immune to magic.

MMH has a pretty decent HF too.

Also, why would the JLAs weaknesses stack, but not the Avengers? Scarlet Witch, for example, is weak to a fist to the face. I assume you cancel it out with Hulk's HF and Thor's durability, so why doesn't MMH's weakness get cancelled out by Superman etc?

Atom is immune to magic? News to me.

Why would having Superman's durability cancel out MMH's mental weakness to fire?

And even then, I don't think it would work that way. Why would this amalgam not be weak to kryptonite for example?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Atom is immune to magic? News to me.

Why would having Superman's durability cancel out MMH's mental weakness to fire?

And even then, I don't think it would work that way. Why would this amalgam not be weak to kryptonite for example?

Yeah, Ray has proven that magic does not work when one is the size of a theoretical particle. Obsidian Age, against Gamanemnae.

Because you now have Batman's mental fortitude? Superman's mental fortitude?

Why wouldn't the Avengers amalgam have human level durability and reflexes? You've taken Hulk's HF, for example. So why can't I stack attributes from the LEaguers?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, Ray has proven that magic does not work when one is the size of a theoretical particle. Obsidian Age, against Gamanemnae.

Because you now have Batman's mental fortitude? Superman's mental fortitude?

Why wouldn't the Avengers amalgam have human level durability and reflexes? You've taken Hulk's HF, for example. So why can't I stack attributes from the LEaguers?

Ohh, pfft. So assuming he's the size of a particle, I thought he was just immune period.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think of Martian Manhunter as a mental weakling.

It's a phobia. And now that phobia has been passed onto the Amalgam. Martian Manhunter is fully aware that fire isn't going to kill him, he's just afraid of it. And so would the Amalgam. Or why wouldn't they also have the phobia? Since you like rhetorical questions 👆

I don't think I said you can't stack attributes. Did I? But it's different. Fire should illicit a reaction, as it's part of what got fused onto the characters, where once there was no phobia, now there's a phobia.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Ohh, pfft. So assuming he's the size of a particle, I thought he was just immune period.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think of Martian Manhunter as a mental weakling.

It's a phobia. And now that phobia has been passed onto the Amalgam. Martian Manhunter is fully aware that fire isn't going to kill him, he's just afraid of it. And so would the Amalgam. Or why wouldn't they also have the phobia? Since you like rhetorical questions 👆

I don't think I said you can't stack attributes. Did I? But it's different. Fire should illicit a reaction, as it's part of what got fused onto the characters, where once there was no phobia, now there's a phobia.

But why would JLAmalgam have a phobia? Batman doesn't have one. Firestorm, whose head is literally on fire, doesn't have one.

On balance, if there are 8 characters, and only one has a phobia....why does the amalgam have one? THAT'S why the amalgam doesn't have one. Because on balance, there are more characters who would literally laugh at fire.

Does Avenmalgam have a weakness to sunlight like Hulk? When they use their Spectrum powers, do they depower themselves? Of course not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But why would JLAmalgam have a phobia? Batman doesn't have one. Firestorm, whose head is literally on fire, doesn't have one.

On balance, if there are 8 characters, and only one has a phobia....why does the amalgam have one? THAT'S why the amalgam doesn't have one. Because on balance, there are more characters who would literally laugh at fire.

Does Avenmalgam have a weakness to sunlight like Hulk? When they use their Spectrum powers, do they depower themselves? Of course not.

Because MMH does have one.

8 character who do not, but one who does, just introduced a new element into the equation. In this case, the phobia. At least that's how I see it. It's a state of mind, and one that has now been introduced to the group.

If this were immortal hulk, then yeah I would say the group has a weakness to sunlight, if the Hulk's composition is being introduced.

We can ask Leo on his intention for the tread.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Because MMH does have one.

8 character who do not, but one who does, just introduced a new element into the equation. In this case, the phobia. At least that's how I see it. It's a state of mind, and one that has now been introduced to the group.

If this were immortal hulk, then yeah I would say the group has a weakness to sunlight, if the Hulk's composition is being introduced.

We can ask Leo on his intention for the tread.

But Batman, who does not, introduces HIS state of mind into the group.

Firestorm, who does not, introduces HIS state of mind.

Etc etc.

Why does MMH trump everyone else's? Thor has been shown to be incapable of understanding modern technology - which is new to this group of Avengers - does he trump Vision, then, and thus the Avengmalgam is suddenly unable to use their tech-based powers?

Edit: Yes, let's ask Leo.

Leo, is your intention for the amalgam to have the weaknesses?

So you have combined MMH, famous for his weakness to fire, with this guy, whose name is literally 'A metric shit-ton of MMH's weakness':

Please tell me what your intentions are? Very confusing indeed 👆

Firestorm's fire melts his own composite, Thor passes out when he experiences how strong Hulk is, or when Spectrum starts moving too fast.

Draw.

pretty much how i saw it. 👆

and i'd think mm's phobia would be cancelled completely by the others. i'd also think if pym and atom both shrunk, wanda's powers would still work.... i think wanda's power is being slept on--badly--in this match. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much how i saw it. 👆

and i'd think mm's phobia would be cancelled completely by the others. i'd also think if pym and atom both shrunk, wanda's powers would still work.... i think wanda's power is being slept on--badly--in this match. /shrug

Well Nth Metal is also in play here. Which negates magic, IIRC.

With Firestorm now able to make as much of it as needed. At Superman level speeds.

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much how i saw it. 👆

and i'd think mm's phobia would be cancelled completely by the others.

Fair enough! I concede the point.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well Nth Metal is also in play here. Which negates magic, IIRC.

With Firestorm now able to make as much of it as needed. At Superman level speeds.

it's possible in that mash up called metal that i forgot where this was shown, but i don't remember nth metal negating magic directly.....

and wanda's power is only pseudo-magic in the sense that it is her mutant power to affect probability at the speed of light that would be the big problem here, even if it could affect her actual witchy-style magic.