Originally posted by mike brown
I think your example is silly, too. You don't need to promote Satanism in order to support the separation of church and state. I think you just like anything that will upset Christians.
How are you still missing the point? It's an effective strategy to counter Christian privilege...
Sure, anyone could simply point out that it's unconstitutional, but Christianity is privileged. Most elected officials profess to be Christian, so they don't care if such unconstitutional demonstrations benefit Christianity. In fact in many cases they probably prefer it. But if Satanists step in and demand equal representation (which in fairness they should be able to do) it makes people illegally promoting Christianity rethink the situation.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
How are you still missing the point? It's an effective strategy to counter Christian privilege...Sure, anyone could simply point out that it's unconstitutional, but Christianity is privileged. Most elected officials profess to be Christian, so they don't care if such unconstitutional demonstrations benefit Christianity. In fact in many cases they probably prefer it. But if Satanists step in and demand equal representation (which in fairness they should be able to do) it makes people illegally promoting Christianity rethink the situation.
Could say in that sense that they're doing god's work in keeping the playing field even.
Originally posted by Patient_Leechso they don't care about something being unconstitutional but they some how care about Satanists demanding equal rights? Why don't they just use their Christian privilege to deny them equal rights?
How are you still missing the point? It's an effective strategy to counter Christian privilege...Sure, anyone could simply point out that it's unconstitutional, but Christianity is privileged. Most elected officials profess to be Christian, so they don't care if such unconstitutional demonstrations benefit Christianity. In fact in many cases they probably prefer it. But if Satanists step in and demand equal representation (which in fairness they should be able to do) it makes people illegally promoting Christianity rethink the situation.
No, they DO care about it being unconstitutional. Hence their whole endeavor.
Constitutionally there can be no establishment of any particular religion over others. They either have to allow all religious proselytizing or none at all, so promoting Satan makes Christians back off. Hence preventing encroaching theocracy.
I think you're going a long way looking for an excuse to hail Satan. Like I said you can challenge the Constitutionality of an action without inventing a fake religion to support. You could just object to the Christians proselytizing without trying to do your own. Or .. you could try to hand out Qurans, which is bound to scare them more than fake Satanists.
Originally posted by mike brown
No shit they wouldn't. Which serves the same purpose you say the Satanist Boogeyman is supposed to serve.
No, it simply would not serve the same purpose because then they'd be spreading the horrors of Islam and not tenets such as these...
There's no need to be triggered by their 'edginess' if you actually look at what they're about.
Uh.. ok. So let's try to follow your logic here.
Here is the quote that started this:
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Example: when after-school programs want to include Christian pamphlets to try to brainwash kids early, the Satanists insist on being able to include their own pamphlets. Guess what? It puts a stop to the Christian pamphlets really quickly. Pushing a particular religion is not supposed to be allowed in public education.
So as far as I can tell, the object here is not to spread Satanism but to prevent anyone from spreading their religion in school by demanding equal rights.
If the goal is to actually get them to let you spread Satanism in schools, this naturally will allow for Islamic proselytizing as well. Since that's how equal rights works. So it seems to me you haven't thought this through at all.
Originally posted by Patient_LeechI don't actually have much against their actual beliefs
There's no need to be triggered by their 'edginess' if you actually look at what they're about.
I think they're corny cause they cloak themselves in a faux edgy label and then reinvent the meaning of Satanism to be some pussified version of basic secular atheism. That's what's wrong with kids these days... They call them selves satanists but don't even have the basic conviction to pay homage to the dark lord with a virgin sacrifice. **** those posers imo
Originally posted by mike brown
So as far as I can tell, the object here is not to spread Satanism but to prevent anyone from spreading their religion in school by demanding equal rights.If the goal is to actually get them to let you spread Satanism in schools, this naturally will allow for Islamic proselytizing as well. Since that's how equal rights works. So it seems to me you haven't thought this through at all.
Like I said, it's about what the constitution allows. Either all religions or none. But Christianity often gets a pass and they're simply pointing out that illegality and attempting to remedy it. Of course if anyone tried to proselytize Islam in public schools it would be massively controversial. But Christianity? Not so much.. but it should be, and they're making it so.
If you asked the Satanic Temple what their "goal" is, I don't know what they'd say. If they happen to be battling some religious discrimination case then the goal is probably to either get legal permission to proselytize for Satanism along side Christianity or to get all religion disallowed from public education. Either way it's a win.
Originally posted by mike brown
I don't actually have much against their actual beliefsI think they're corny cause they cloak themselves in a faux edgy label and then reinvent the meaning of Satanism to be some pussified version of basic secular atheism. That's what's wrong with kids these days... They call them selves satanists but don't even have the basic conviction to pay homage to the dark lord with a virgin sacrifice. **** those posers imo
They don't actually believe in Satan, more than likely they're atheists. Satan is used as a symbol of freedom of expression, rebellion, personal autonomy, etc.
Originally posted by TempAccount
What's so bad about satanism?
Apparently according to mike it's that they don't do human sacrifices. lol
Originally posted by TempAccount
What's so bad about satanism?
Nothing, in the end they essentially "worship" free will.
These folk definitely seem to have been influenced by the "Church of Satan" that cropped up in the 1960's. That was counter culture type stuff.
EDIT: Actually I think it might vary when it comes to what they believe. I think some do see Lucifer as some sort of supernatural force, but not evil.
It can be confusing because I've read stuff where people consider Lucifer and Satan as two separate beings. This article discusses it:
https://www.ranker.com/list/origins-of-lucifer-in-christianity/genevieve-carlton
Originally posted by Patient_LeechI am not talking about their goal.. I'm referring to the mechanism through which you stated they are preventing theocracy. I agree that trying to keep proselyting out to schools is a good goal. I don't see hailing Satan as a necessary ingredient to that project, for the reasons I pointed out. And I don't regard a situation where people are free to preach Christianity along side Satanism, Islam Scientology and you name it as a win. None of them have any place in public schools.
Like I said, it's about what the constitution allows. Either all religions or none. But Christianity often gets a pass and they're simply pointing out that illegality and attempting to remedy it. Of course if anyone tried to proselytize Islam in public schools it would be massively controversial. But Christianity? Not so much.. but it should be, and they're making it so.If you asked the Satanic Temple what their "goal" is, I don't know what they'd say. If they happen to be battling some religious discrimination case then the goal is probably to either get legal permission to proselytize for Satanism along side Christianity or to get all religion disallowed from public education. Either way it's a win.
hey don't actually believe in Satan, more than likely they're atheists. Satan is used as a symbol of freedom of expression, rebellion, personal autonomy, etc.I know they don't worship Satan. Which is why I think they're phony. Like I said it's like being a Christian that doesn't believe in Jesus.Apparently according to mike it's that they don't do human sacrifices. lol
The Satanic Temple is a non-theistic religious organization focused on halting the encroachment of religion on government.
Secular and church-state separation organizations share the same goal, but are not as successful in their efforts, because they are often denied standing to challenge laws and institutions that confer privileges to majority religions, because they are not religions themselves.
By organizing around a controversial religious figure, The Satanic Temple demonstrates to government officials, Christian Dominionists, and the general public the importance of government neutrality with regard to matters of religion.
Originally posted by mike brown
I am not talking about their goal.. I'm referring to the mechanism through which you stated they are preventing theocracy. I agree that trying to keep proselyting out to schools is a good goal. I don't see hailing Satan as a necessary ingredient to that project, for the reasons I pointed out. And I don't regard a situation where people are free to preach Christianity along side Satanism, Islam Scientology and you name it as a win. None of them have any place in public schools.
Many school administrators are nominally, if not devoutly, Christian. Therefore, they do not see anything inappropriate about Christian organizations proselytizing in public schools.
So if an Atheist, which is one of the most unpopular minority groups in America, challenges the constitutionality of allowing that group to meet, the administrators are not inclined to entertain that challenge.
They simply argue that the organization in question is permissible, so long as they鈥攐n paper鈥攁llow similar religious organizations to meet as well. The Satanic Temple simply tests that argument.
This puts the administrators in a bind: if they are honest, then they must permit The Satanic Temple; if they do not, then they must disallow the Christian organizations as well.
The goal is not to get The Satanic Temple in, it is to get Child Evangelism Fellowship out.
Thus far, no After School Satan Club has met. Instead, administrators have banned all after school clubs, or Good News Clubs have voluntarily withdrawn, in order to keep them out.
Based on results, the strategy appears to be working.
Originally posted by mike brown
I know they don't worship Satan. Which is why I think they're phony. Like I said it's like being a Christian that doesn't believe in Jesus.
To members of The Satanic Temple, Satan is a symbol of rebellion against religious tyranny. In the bible, Satan offers Eve the gift of knowledge, liberating humankind, before leading a rebellion against the unjust authoritarianism of Yahweh. One does not have to believe in a literal Satan to recognize that character as a potent religious symbol.
