Originally posted by leonidas
@Leo:
Superman was going fast enough that he was definitely FTL:
So at the very least, assume he's got the strength level of a normal human (Flash).
And Flash can punch incredibly hard, even when BELOW that speed.
Am ignoring all the language about how he's being felt across the multiverse. Because someone would probably dismiss it.
So we have a bullet travelling at MFTL speeds. How hard do you think it would hit?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Leo:Superman was going fast enough that he was definitely FTL:
So at the very least, assume he's got the strength level of a normal human (Flash).
And Flash can punch incredibly hard, even when BELOW that speed.
Am ignoring all the language about how he's being felt across the multiverse. Because someone would probably dismiss it.
So we have a bullet travelling at MFTL speeds. How hard do you think it would hit?
In one of Galan's scans, WF treats Barbatos like a mouse he's about to feed his pet snake. Barbatos at a time was already able to and had been destroying universes. That's a pretty big feat for WF aside from creating multiverses. he's also the eldest of the 3 Monitors. IIRC that he was the most powerful of them, but should at least be their equal.
Originally posted by Galan007
Justice League (1/2):
Oh I know
He was also durable enough to stop an enraged Superman with a single finger.
So if 'normal' Superman is HH level (which I think nobody disputes), then WF is at the very least, based on THAT single instance (and nothing else), skyfather/abstract.
Maybe Superman was weakened when he tried punching WF? But we saw WF smashing him into the planet, so nobody here would want to argue a weakened Superman can withstand planetary attacks, lol.
My scan above at least avoids the circularity. WF is durable because he survived essentially a human sized sniper bullet fired at MFTL speeds.
Originally posted by Diesldude
In one of Galan's scans, WF treats Barbatos like a mouse he's about to feed his pet snake. Barbatos at a time was already able to and had been destroying universes. That's a pretty big feat for WF aside from creating multiverses. he's also the eldest of the 3 Monitors. IIRC that he was the most powerful of them, but should at least be their equal.
yeah that's circular, as you pointed out. and why would anyone need to think he had human level strength....? we've already seen superman use an imp:
https://www.reddit.com/r/busterfeats/comments/7g36s2/comics_planet_superman_imps_the_shadow_moon_dc/
imp doesn't seem to scale very well (by that i mean he can smash a moon without those speeds, and given how much an imp helps flash, it didn't seem to help supes much at all). he smashed a moon and ko'd himself when he was going ftl. cool feat, but not TERRIBLY impressive. this time, he was amped and traveling faster. just how long, cumulatively, do you suppose he "sundipped"? given the speeds he attained, he must have passed through those stars in attoseconds. so how long, collectively do you think he dipped? i'd argue, not very long. it's one of the coolest thing about the feat--how quickly he recovered, an was amped to some degree. that and the speed (which is the coolest thing to me.)
so, i'd argue he was amped, but not terribly. owaw would have been amped more imo. that can be looked at in 2 ways--a slightly amped superman knocked down and almost ko'd wf, or wf was knocked down and almost ko'd by a barely amped superman using a very cool imp (which we've seen doesn't scale well anyway).
then we see wf slam superman into a planet (i do think supes was weakened at the time of the attack). but....so? for a being the level people suppose he is, slamming superman into a planet is....pretty weak sauce. skyfather level? i guess. maybe.
my point--everyone assumes wf is some multiversal power. but if he were a marvel guy, people would be screaming for feats instead of crowning him. what has he actually done? compare him to standard monitor or anti-monitor then. i don't care if that gives a better gauge. just seems like--it's dc he must be uber!11! is a very typical refrain in the forum atm, and i'm not sure why.
it's a super cool feat for superman. a multiversal punch?? 😂 seriously....
i do actually appreciate you at least making the effort to make a case for him. it's a lot more than a lot of dc supporters are doing these days. 👆
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah that's circular, as you pointed out. and why would anyone need to think he had human level strength....? we've already seen superman use an imp:https://www.reddit.com/r/busterfeats/comments/7g36s2/comics_planet_superman_imps_the_shadow_moon_dc/
imp doesn't seem to scale very well. he smashed a moon and ko'd himself when he was going ftl. cool feat, but not TERRIBLY impressive. this time, he was amped and traveling faster. just how long, cumulatively, do you suppose he "sundipped"? given the speeds he attained, he must have passed through those stars in attoseconds. so how long, collectively do you think he dipped? i'd argue, not very long. it's one of the coolest thing about the feat--how quickly he recovered, an was amped to some degree. that and the speed (which is the coolest thing to me.)
so, i'd argue he was amped, but not terribly. owaw would have been amped more imo. that can be looked at in 2 ways--a slightly amped superman knocked down and almost ko'd wf, or wf was knocked down and almost ko'd by a barely amped superman using a very cool imp (which we've seen doesn't scale well anyway).
then we see wf slam superman into a planet (i do think supes was weakened at the time of the attack). but....so? for a being the level people suppose he is, slamming superman into a planet is....pretty weak sauce. skyfather level? i guess. maybe.
my point--everyone assumes wf is some multiversal power. but if he were a marvel guy, people would be screaming for feats instead of crowning him. what has he actually done? compare him to standard monitor or anti-monitor then. i don't care if that gives a better gauge. just seems like--it's dc he must be uber!11! is a very typical refrain in the forum atm, and i'm not sure why.
it's a super cool feat for superman. a multiversal punch?? 😂 seriously....
i do actually appreciate you at least making the effort to make a case for him. it's a lot more than a lot of dc supporters are doing these days. 👆
The Shadow Moon, as you know, was made of magic. So not quite the same.
Moreover, it was hurtling at Earth at that speed, when Superman smashed into it. I know I know, here he was also at MFTL speeds, but it's something to remember.
I then asked for a scan in another thread (might post it here if needed) showing Superman recharges faster the more stressed he is.
IOW, the amount of time he spends in the suns is moot. Because his recharge rate isn't constant.
It's not circular, because we have the speeds given.
'DS is strong'
'How strong?'
He KOed Tyson in one hit'
'How durable is Tyson?'
'DS hit him with a sniper bullet travelling at 1000m/second'
And that's ignoring statements like 'The sniper bullet was so fast, it created a Sonic boom so loud, every country on Earth felt it' or something silly like that.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Leo:Superman was going fast enough that he was definitely FTL:
So at the very least, assume he's got the strength level of a normal human (Flash).
And Flash can punch incredibly hard, even when BELOW that speed.
Am ignoring all the language about how he's being felt across the multiverse. Because someone would probably dismiss it.
So we have a bullet travelling at MFTL speeds. How hard do you think it would hit?
You do know everyone seen Superman coming before the punch, right? Either all of them have FTL vision or he was not moving that fast before delivering the punch.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh I knowHe was also durable enough to stop an enraged Superman with a single finger.
So if 'normal' Superman is HH level (which I think nobody disputes), then WF is at the very least, based on THAT single instance (and nothing else), skyfather/abstract.
Maybe Superman was weakened when he tried punching WF? But we saw WF smashing him into the planet, so nobody here would want to argue a weakened Superman can withstand planetary attacks, lol.
My scan above at least avoids the circularity. WF is durable because he survived essentially a human sized sniper bullet fired at MFTL speeds.
How is slamming him into a planet that didnt suffer any type of damage a planetary attack? Also, nothing in your scans dictates WF being anywhere close to skyfather/Abstract. Are you implying Superman was going all out in those scans?
Originally posted by carver9
You do know everyone seen Superman coming before the punch, right? Either all of them have FTL vision or he was not moving that face before delivering the punch.
So you're saying he slowed massively down just before punching? But art clearly shows him straining, so are you saying he was doing a giant poop?
I mean, I can watch fighter jets flying across the sky at 1000s of km/hr. I can watch the Sun moving across the sky. Doesn't mean I have those reflexes.
I can post many examples of comics showing what you're describing. Doesn't mean a thing. This is a terrible argument of yours.
Originally posted by carver9
How is slamming him into a planet that didnt suffer any type of damage a planetary attack? Also, nothing in your scans dictates WF being anywhere close to skyfather/Abstract. Are you implying Superman was going all out in those scans?
Name another character that can stop an enraged Superman with a single finger.
Superman was certainly trying, he's even screaming Raaah.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're saying he slowed massively down just before punching? But art clearly shows him straining, so are you saying he was doing a giant poop?I mean, I can watch fighter jets flying across the sky at 1000s of km/hr. I can watch the Sun moving across the sky. Doesn't mean I have those reflexes.
I can post many examples of comics showing what you're describing. Doesn't mean a thing. This is a terrible argument of yours.
I'm telling you that people looked up in the sky and saw Superman and started smiling. What is there to dispute here? It happened.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm telling you that people looked up in the sky and saw Superman and started smiling. What is there to dispute here? It happened.
And it's PIS 🙂
Unless you want to argue he slowed down so that the human level Batman can see him and smile? If you don't want to argue that, then it's PIS.
After all, WBH's trousers didn't get destroyed. It happened. Nothing to dispute, right?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Name another character that can stop an enraged Superman with a single finger.Superman was certainly trying, he's even screaming Raaah.
I cant since no one else attempted that, AND, I dont know where Superman power level was at since the scene started with him being in complete darkness. I do know of a scene where Zod stood in one spot allowing Superman to pound his face in while smiling. I guess Zod is Abstract as well.
😂 ... I remember you all laughed at me when I used pain or screaming noises as an argument.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And it's PIS 🙂Unless you want to argue he slowed down so that the human level Batman can see him and smile? If you don't want to argue that, then it's PIS.
After all, WBH's trousers didn't get destroyed. It happened. Nothing to dispute, right?
😂 😂
You have a bad habit of discrediting everything. It's impossible to debate against you.
Originally posted by carver9
I cant since no one else attempted that, AND, I dont know where Superman power level was at since the scene started with him being in complete darkness. I do know of a scene where Zod stood in one spot allowing Superman to pound his face in while smiling. I guess Zod is Abstract as well.😂 ... I remember you all laughed at me when I used pain or screaming noises as an argument.
Well Superman was at a level where being slammed into the planet didn't KO him.
Knowing you, it was probably a retarded argument. Your specific question was whether he was going all out....my answer was that he was certainly trying pretty damn hard, lmao.
