Potential Superman BZ thread

Started by Damborgson10 pages

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's a forum fight, but NOT a scenario fight. Why is Thor mad at Superman and fighting him? Who knows, who cares.

They're all here to fight, and to win. But that doesn't mean OOC attacks, like Superman tearing heads off and throwing them to the Moon whilst using HV to cauterize neck wounds.

Superman isn't here to talk them down, or to get the measure of their punches, or to challenge himself. Thor isn't here to show off to Jane how many punches he can take, or how he doesn't need Mjolnir to fight or any crap like that. A pure forum fight, as KMC has always been set up from the beginning for.

In effect, it's issue 2 of a 4 book miniseries lol, where all the talking has already occurred.

Woah, hold up. So this is not your standard, you control the characters BZ, the still act with a semblance of decency?

So then, Superman would effectively not be out to kill anyone. And we have to fight in a way that is substantiated with how they'd fight in the comics?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Woah, hold up. So this is not your standard, you control the characters BZ, the still act with a semblance of decency?

So then, Superman would effectively not be out to kill anyone. And we have to fight in a way that is substantiated with how they'd fight in the comics?

From Galan:

That being said, the assumption that Superman isn't a drooling buffoon, and would at least use *just enough* of his speed defensively(we're not even talking about offensive speed-blitzes at this point) to stay alive in a forum battle if he deemed his opponent a legitimate threat, isn't remotely the same as Surfer(or any versatile character) pulling exotic abilities out of his ass at the onset.

From -Pr-:

TLDR: Characters, generally, don't self-sabotage to the point that it will cost them the match, nor will they accelerate to 100 in the over-the-top use of their powers, unless it's something you can prove is a habit of theirs.

So, what IS In Character?

It's something that should easily be boiled down to "How a character will react when put in to a specific circumstance" namely a VS battle. How do we know this, or rather, should we know this? Simple: You can name any one of a dozen, if not two-dozen people on this board that could walk in to the offices of Marvel or DC and, like many other comic fans, be seen as having encyclopedic knowledge of a character or a team. The assumption is that with that knowledge comes a level of understanding of said character. If you're reasonably intelligent, and I know a lot of the people on this board are (even if they pretend to be dense as **** sometimes), understanding a character in broad strokes is not that hard.

For example, I've read less than... I'd say easily less than a hundred Spider-Man comics, but if you asked me to describe his personality, I could draw on said comics even without having seen movies or cartoons or even that weird TV show from the 80s, and tell you that Spider-Man is, deep down, just a person trying to do the right thing. He's a genius but also a nerd. He loves his aunt, he loves (or did love) his wife Mary Jane, and he would feel deeply the loss of anyone he couldn't save. That's simple stuff.

Now, if we talk about powers... I know the base-level stuff. I know he can stick to walls. I know he can shoot webs from web shooters he made himself. I know he has a Spider-Sense that warns him of danger. I know he's strong, durable and fast. Strong enough that he has to pull his punches so that a bank-robber's heart doesn't explode. Fast enough that he's not likely to get hit by gunfire. I have read that he's the most agile person in Marvel, though I don't know if that's true or just was at one point. But he does a LOT of flippy shit in his comics. That said, there are probably a bunch of applications of his powers that I haven't the foggiest idea about.

So, with those two in mind, as limited as it might be, I come to the third part: How Spider-Man fights In Character. How do I get there? Simple. As much as I want to be able to say "You go by how the character behaves, not how you would in their place", you still have to fill in the gaps once you take things like PIS out. But, and this is the important part, you are SUPPLEMENTING them. You are NOT. REPLACING. Shit. What you would do with Spider-Man or any other character's powers is great and all, but it's what leads to powerset v powerset, and is for tourneys, NOT for the general board. This part of the point is incredibly important. You are still operating within the paramaters of what a character WOULD do, as opposed to what they CAN do.

Even from reading the comics I've read, which I've already admitted is not that many in comparison to some of the people on this board, I can still say several things with reasonable certainty when it comes to Spider-Man: His superior agility means most enemies will have a hard time hitting him unless they have some hard counter to it like superior speed. He likes to use his webs, which means that character that specialise in melee are going to have a hard time against him, and Spider-Man KNOWS THIS. Because HE KNOWS THIS, he is smart enough to use this to his advantage. This means that because HE knows he doesn't have to close to melee range, that he won't stupidly decide halfway through the fight to try outpunching someone that could out-punch him. Or to waste time on someone that can be wrapped up with one shot of his webs. He can still get close up and win fights, sure, but that's an option, not a necessity.

Obviously, if someone knows Spider-Man better than I do, I'm going to end up getting corrected in threads when it comes to facts about the character, his power levels or his villains if I say something wrong, but the basic idea is still there. I've seen Spider-Man use his webs enough, to be competent in their use, and to avoid attacks while concentrating on his own, to know that at the very least, it's common behaviour. There's a reason "Spider-Man webs up Character X" is a viable tactic on the forum.

"But Pr," you might ask "What if a character has a power that they use more sparingly?". Well, to that I would say:

-Is it a part of their powerset and has been used occasionally enough (ie, like, a dozen times, maybe) that they won't forget they can use it?
-Can they access this power/ability right now?
-Will not using it cost them the fight?

And that right there? That's arguably the most important question.

If the answer to all three of those is yes, then they're most likely going to use the power/ability. Either their opponent can stand up to it, or they can't.

Is that simple enough? I mean, what else do you really need to know?

For the last part of this point, I'm going to use a character I know a bit better: Wally West. Flash is notorious on the forum, and you could say some of it is earned. Most of it, however, is not the fault of the character. If you, as a poster, put The Flash against someone that does not have the means to hurt him, then that is on YOU. It's not The Flash's fault that he's not going to slow down or trip over a branch just to give a substantially slower character a chance against him. And no, no talking shit about the Rogues, btw; they're all designed from the ground up to fight The Flash. They're not ammo for your favourite street leveller to have a shot against him.

If you put Deathstroke up against Flash and try to argue using Identity Crisis as evidence, you deserve to get laughed out of the thread. Like a whole lot of Marvel and DC, you get a writer that writes interesting character studies, or great fights. You rarely get both, and that fight, as entertaining as it was, should have been over before Deathstroke was even able to exhale.

-Now, continuing to use the Flash, and to briefly talk about the Superman Vs Weapon H thread:

A character like the Flash is not going to get hit by someone substantially slower than him unless they have some counter to his powers. Simple as that. Wally West isn't Superman (and I'm going to get in to this in a later post). He can't afford to get hit more than once or twice before it starts to actually impact his ability to win the fight. And this, at the end of all of this ranting on the subject, is where I try to lay it out as best as I can:

The Flash/Relevant Character X will use, at a bare minimum, the least amount of speed/Relevant Power, that he is capable of using under average/normal circumstances, required to not lose the fight, or get so badly injured that it will most-likely cost him the fight. Every superhero or supervillain has a minimum amount of effort and competence that they will utilise going in to a fight. For villains that's usually a higher starting point because they like to not hold back, sure, but the heroes aren't going to be stupid either. They are not going to self-sabotage, and they will not let pride, ego or forgetting they have a way to win the fight to get in the way.

-If you put Flash up against someone that can't beat him without PIS, that's not his fault. That's yours.
-If you put Shadowcat up against someone that can't get around her intangibility without PIS, that's not her fault. That's yours.
-If you put someone up against Xavier that can't get past his telepathy to push him down the stairs, again, that's not his fault. That's yours.

This whole idea of putting lesser character up against ones they can't (and notice I said can't, not won't) beat just because you like them more? I doubt it's going to stop, but seriously, anyone who does it? You're not being clever. We all see what you're doing. You should stop. You'll be better off.

Link:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=659628&pagenumber=6

Those are the rules as we operate under for this match. It's a forum BZ, so it's not us, it's them. It's to show how well we not only know the powers but also the character of our ....well, character.

Powerset debate. Philo, calm down. The battle zones that have been going on within KMC walls are usually done by the same people in a repeat fashion. It's not that people dont want to rep anyone, everyone just does not like doing BZ. Timely and a waste.

Originally posted by carver9
Powerset debate. Philo, calm down. The battle zones that have been going on within KMC walls are usually done by the same people in a repeat fashion. It's not that people dont want to rep anyone, everyone just does not like doing BZ. Timely and a waste.

Yes, but this time, it's not US in control, it's the characters in control, using forum rules.

Just reiterating for all to see, in case people are confused. This isn't your usual BZ, where Flash can create an entire army of time clones.

Originally posted by carver9
Powerset debate. Philo, calm down. The battle zones that have been going on within KMC walls are usually done by the same people in a repeat fashion. It's not that people dont want to rep anyone, everyone just does not like doing BZ. Timely and a waste.
That's a long winded way to say that you're a bitc* made coward.

Philo, you are so weird to me. Soooooooo weird.

Phildo, not the time nor place. Save that for the BZ.

Carver, I mean.....Am quoting the mods here. It is what it is. Not the thread to debate it.

Which characters were you thinking of when you said you wanted to open it up to everyone?

No sundipping for Superman correct ?

of course not. i'd assumed this was a standard ring-style forum match. neutral bf, something like an empty park or desert or whatever. he wouldn't even be able to sun dip without bfr'ing himself.

for hulk, is this current hulk, or what?

Good, good...

Are we waiting for a third combatant to round off Marvels trio?

Psycho Gundam maybe?

not sure. i really don't see anyone trying to take hulk against supes in a bz scenario, and i haven't seen pg in a match or even a debate for a longggg time.

Originally posted by Damborgson
No sundipping for Superman correct ?

Is there?

lol not unless you want to make the bf a solar system....

Originally posted by leonidas
lol not unless you want to make the bf a solar system....

Not a bad idea; then Hulk can't be BFRd....

can't be bfr'd in a standard ring either. 👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is there?

Yeah, answer that lol.

I just want to make sure theres no shenanigans where Superman quickly goes and refreshes himself with sunlight should he be in a tight spot.

Originally posted by leonidas
for hulk, is this current hulk, or what?

I'm taking Loebforce Rulk seriously, and the plot thins.

For real? You want in with rulk?

Do it.