Originally posted by carver9
Itll be a false argument because completely stopping a ship of that size vs pushing against the thrusters (they were pushing the head of the ship, not the entire thing) are 2 different things.
You said lift, though. That's not the same thing as pushing it back the other way.
Originally posted by MrMindWhile the feats you've posted are mostly correct. Context matters and your interpretation sucks.
giving MMH some respect because nobody else will, P52/N52 strength featslifted brainiac's mothership which is much much bigger than earth
https://imgur.com/a/qQ1rQpulling part of earth http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/145093/2761567-1530154_superman__wonder_woman__and_martian_pulling_the_earth_super.jpg
wait till carver:"wahhhh, share feats don't count, wahhh"
knocks despero's teeth out
http://i.imgur.com/NG01n66.jpgrestrains superman and flash
fights off entire JLA http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/27470/1020243-martian_manhunter_v2_07___16.jpg
knocks out captain marvel
https://origin-static.comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/original/2632193-22.pngthis one not that impressive but cool scene
https://imgur.com/a/CqDWbEW
1. MM didn't lift Brainiac ship he pushed it. Basic physics tell you it takes between 3X-20X more force to stop and object rather than push it. More importantly MM had SM helping him someone who's considerably stronger than him. We don't know how much MM helped in the situation since SM almost routinely move celestial objects.
2. Can't comment on it since link v doesn't work.
3. See answer number 1, also WW has also been shown to be stronger than MM. So again we don't know how much MM contributed to the effort.
4. The Despero teeth getting knocked out there's 2 ways to respond to it.
a. As someone who did box in H.S and has studied MA for over 20 yrs including Shotokan (japanese MA), Jutjitsu & Judo (japanese MA), Tae Kwon Do (Korean MA), Tai Chi & Bagua (Chinese MA) you don't need to be super-strong to knock someone teeth out. All you need is sufficient speed and hitting the jaw the right place. Why do you thing Boxer spar and fight with a mouth guard?
b. While it can be interpreted as MM knocking out some of Despero teeth out, it can also be interpreted as Despero spitting from the punch given the next panel under it has talking to MM with none of his teeth missing.
5. This is the easiest to degrade as a strenght feat. All he did is rely on his stretching, surprise and speed to ESCAPE from the JL not defeat them. You also failed to mention he had his evil brother subtly helping him like hitting SM while Invisible. It's formability feat a good one but not necessarily a strength feat.
6. I really can't believe you posted this one. Talk about lack of context. This one YELLS OUT CONTEXT.
a. CM was being controlled by the Grey Man and was holding back against MM.
b. It's a know trope in comics people who're being ming controlled never fight to the best of their abilities.
c. Even with those caveats CM had won the fight, the only reason MM was able to knock out CM, was CM finally broke free from the Grey Man control just before he could kill MM.
7. It's a nice feat but nothing SM, WW or any top of the line flying brick couldn't do.
I'm not trying to imply MM ins't extremely strong but he nowhere close to be among the elites.
Originally posted by shadowknight..
1. MM didn't lift Brainiac ship he pushed it. Basic physics tell you it takes between 3X-20X more force to stop and object rather than push it.
You think..
...
You think...it's easier to stop and push clear an object [say, a 1 ton car] coming at you at at 36,000 mph than to...lift it?
Goddamn it, I hate that this is the first post I had to read after the break.
Originally posted by shadowknightThe ship was bigger than Earth and moving at 35,000 mph.
More importantly MM had SM helping him someone who's considerably stronger than him. We don't know how much MM helped in the situation since SM almost routinely move celestial objects.among the elites.
Even if J'onn only supplied 1/100th [lol...] of the strength, that would still make it an absurd feat.
I agree, though, that:
- the Justice League 'one panel splash page' means nothing
- that he was demonstrably physically weaker than Captain Marvel in that fight and won due to context
What a mess.
And to top it all out, I agree with, of all people, carver's post:
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk
Gladiator
Hercules=Thor=Captain Marvel=Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Silver Surfer
1.Superman
2. Hulk
3. Damage
4. Gladiator
5. Captain Marvel
6. Hercules
7.Thor
8. WW
9. MM
10. SS
I split into 4 tiers b/c a decent argument can be made for anyone on the same tier to be slightly stronger than the one on the same tier or so close to be near equal. For example SM overall featwise is stronger than Hulk but Hulk has feats that puts him near if not over SM. The main problem with SM is he holds back so much. In a like manner WW, Thor and Hercules has very daylight separating them but overall I put Hercules as the slightly stronger of the 3.
You think...it's easier to stop and push clear an object [say, a 1 ton car] coming at you at at 36,000 mph than to...lift it?
To be fair, thats not what he said. Both he and Carver are taking the view that while MM said lift he was using the feat to talk about MMH stopping the ship.
So his intent was to say that stopping that stopping that 1 ton car coming at you at 36,000mph is between 3 to 20 times greater a feat than shunting it so that it changes direction.
Lets use the analogy of your car. Another car in front of it or driving straight at it will stop it, and the damage from the impact will likely completely demolish both vehicles (sonce going only 50mph would crush the front end of both.
The damage of those cars glancing off each other and the second changing the direction of travel of the first isnt anywhere near as great because its a much lesser imact dealing with vastly lesser forces. Just like how movie scenes where cars have fender damage when they run others off the road.
Or rather than using fiction as an example I can use my own real life example I had a car accident several years ago with my children in the car I was driving straight through intersection where I had a green light a car turned across the intersection in front of me against a red light I struck the side of that car my car with the impact full on against the direction I was travelling was completely punched in the car that was hit side on only had minor damage, and was shunted to the side. This is because even though the same force acted on both, was used it was not completely against the direction that force on the car I hit was not against its direction of travel and therefore it had vectors in its direction of travel
Or
F=MA
A= -36000x 1609.344 (meters per mile)/what ever tike it takes to come to a stop. If we assume is s 2 seconds then its almost 29 million newtons
To alter its direction is no where near the same. If for example it is changed 20 degrees of its initial course then its fluid motion already had a vector in that direction. Its forward motionnisnt completely stopped and its acceleration is instead only that changed vector. The math is vastly less (but requires a few calculations that i couldnt be bothered with
Originally posted by MrMind
the entire argument started because I used the word lift instead of 'push it clear'... well excusez-moi english is not my first language...we are getting to new territories of nerdiness I like it 👆
Its still a hell of a feat, it would just be considerable more impressive if he had actually lifted it or stipped it. Redirecting in a way uses its own thrust. So its more like using leverage. I do that all the time to lift things that are too heavy for me that I couldnt straight up lift without
Originally posted by beatboksLifting the ship was, ironically, Mr Mind inadvertently using language that severely undermines the feat the feat. He stopped from crashing and pushed back into space a ship that was much larger than Earth, coming at 36,000 mph.
To be fair, thats not what he said. Both he and Carver are taking the view that while MM said lift he was using the feat to talk about MMH stopping the ship.
Lets use the analogy of your car. Another car in front of it or driving straight at it will stop it, and the damage from the impact will likely completely demolish both vehicles (sonce going only 50mph would crush the front end of both.I don't think you read the issue if you're using this analogy, boks. You've been mislead by just those scans posted, because they're missing all the pages in between. The two objects weren't just glancing as the ship existed the portal. There's far more pages in between.The damage of those cars glancing off each other and the second changing the direction of travel of the first isnt anywhere near as great because its a much lesser imact dealing with vastly lesser forces. Just like how movie scenes where cars have fender damage when they run others off the road.
Brainiac's ship and Earth were on direct crash after the superheroes tried to send Earth and the ship in the Phantom Zone, failed, and they were about to slam together:
https://imgur.com/a/L3u6cLR
You even get a hint at this in the out of context scans, where it says the ship is crashing into the stratosphere at those speeds and J'onn/Superman says they push it back away.
Never trust just posted scans, lol.
This is hilarious.
I just realized that I agreed with carver, because he literally copied my rankings in a thread from two months ago:
Originally posted by Philosophía
I won't rank all-out Superman [i.e. Imperiex Probe plowing, Doomsday splitting etc.], since that'd just instantly make people's noses bleed here when everybody moves towards zero. So to take a 'serious' Justice League Superman:Billy Batson - 80
Carol Danvers - 40
Hercules - 80
Hulk [not a particular, but general versions] - 90
Thor - 80
Wonder Woman - 80
Martian Manhunter - 75
Sentry - which version? Average 'serious hero' one is about 90, 'Void' is around 100
Blue Marvel - 70
Hyperion - 85
Silver Surfer - 65
Supergirl - 85
Simon Williams - 70
Gladiator - 85
Captain Adam - 75
Orion - 90
Even though he himself disagrees with the same rankings he made in this thread:
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Billy Batson as CM of course - 100
Carol Danvers - 70
Hercules- Marvel - 90
Hulk any or all versions - 150
Thor - 90
Wonder Woman - 80
Martian Manhunter - 80
Sentry - 500
Blue Marvel - 100
Hyperion- any version - 100
Silver Surfer-amped or unamped - 90
Supergirl - 90
Simon Williams - 90
Gladiator -100
Captain Adam - ?
Orion- 90
Originally posted by carver9
This. Based off pure fts though, I would put Hyperion at about 130 and Orion at 100 based off of their fights. If we are looking at WBH, that's 300 or more tbh.
What a loser, lol.
Originally posted by Philosophía
This is hilarious.I just realized that I agreed with carver, because he literally copied my rankings in a thread from two months ago:
Even though he himself disagrees with the same rankings he made in this thread:
What a loser, lol.
makes you wonder if him and Alberto came from the same vagine
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661973&pagenumber=12
