I wasn't singling out any one person. 👆
I've never understood the issue with the big bang vs creation. I guess I've always been able to separate science from Faith. Imo, science is necessary to learn the mysteries of the universe. Faith is necessary for the same reason to me. srug
Anyway, the science of the big bang always leads to either a paradox or infinity. Science has taken us to these conclusions. Either the universe popped into existence from nothing or our universe is part of an infinite multiverse. Neither sits well with me. It's either a chicken and the egg paradox or an infinite singularity.
As for life. Darwinism work great, and is proven, for small changes. See domestication of animals. But on a grand scale it falls apart badly. To say a single celled microbe evolved into complex, self aware life is not realistic to me. Most life is more complex than any machine that's been built. Let's say we find a fully functioning watch on another planet. Would you think it just occurred naturally or was it built by something intelligent?
Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist or biologist. So my opinions are that of a laymen. But I think both science and faith have a place in discovering the deeper mysteries of the universe and life.
Many of the statements I'm seeing stem from a lack of understanding on the Big Bang model of the universe. Big Bang Theory doesn't state everything came from nothing. It states everything already existed, but was in a hyper dense and hot state before expanding outward over time.
Yes, there are unresolved problems. As science discovers more about things like dark matter/dark energy, anti-matter, and the horizon problem, the model of the universe may change. It's why science uses "theory" instead of "law" nowadays: it's arrogant to assume no new knowledge could ever be gained that alters our understanding of the observable world.
Regardless, the Big Bang Theory is not the only proposed model of the universe, but it's where the current evidence points to. Current evidence doesn't point to a god or gods. I have no problem if people believe in gods. If faith enriches your life in some way, then have at it. We can't pretend they are equally supported in objective data though.
Originally posted by Badabing
I've never understood the issue with the big bang vs creation. I guess I've always been able to separate science from Faith.As for life. Darwinism work great, and is proven, for small changes. See domestication of animals. But on a grand scale it falls apart badly. To say a single celled microbe evolved into complex, self aware life is not realistic to me. Most life is more complex than any machine that's been built. Let's say we find a fully functioning watch on another planet. Would you think it just occurred naturally or was it built by something intelligent?
On the watch thing, the problem there is we already know what a watch is. We know, with certainty, that humans make watches. Or make machines that make watches. We've got no evidence they occur naturally either.
Finding tons of watches on an uninhabited planet might lead to discovering some weird natural process I guess. Or a watch-fruit bearing tree if there is plant life. We'd really have to investigate before making conclusions either way though.
Originally posted by Badabing
I wasn't singling out any one person. 👆I've never understood the issue with the big bang vs creation. I guess I've always been able to separate science from Faith. Imo, science is necessary to learn the mysteries of the universe. Faith is necessary for the same reason to me. srug
Anyway, the science of the big bang always leads to either a paradox or infinity. Science has taken us to these conclusions. Either the universe popped into existence from nothing or our universe is part of an infinite multiverse. Neither sits well with me. It's either a chicken and the egg paradox or an infinite singularity.
As for life. Darwinism work great, and is proven, for small changes. See domestication of animals. But on a grand scale it falls apart badly. To say a single celled microbe evolved into complex, self aware life is not realistic to me. Most life is more complex than any machine that's been built. Let's say we find a fully functioning watch on another planet. Would you think it just occurred naturally or was it built by something intelligent?
Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist or biologist. So my opinions are that of a laymen. But I think both science and faith have a place in discovering the deeper mysteries of the universe and life.
I as well certainly believe in small changes which is mistakenly called "microevolution" by many people. When I refer to Darwinism though as being wrong I'm talking about the theory overall. Which says that those easily provable small changes eventually add up to big, crazy changes like a land creature turning into a whale lol or a monkey/ape turning into a human (yes, that's quite a big change despite what Darwinists may think).
As for the Big Bang, I certainly don't think of that as being actual science. Yes, I believe the universe was created from nothing but I don't believe God used a big bang like event. I believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis which says that God spoke everything into existence (except for man, which He actually took the time to mold with His hands; which is why we are special to Him) and He didn't do it all instantly, though He certainly could have.
He created the universe over the course of 6 days and then rested on the seventh for our (humans) benefit. It is where our 7 day week truly comes from.
I'm not against science at all. I actually love science because it proves the existence of an omnipotent intelligent designer or at least suggests that there is one. It's certainly much more logical to assume there is one than to think pure randomness created all the order and natural laws we have in the universe.
The Big Bang and Darwinian macroevolution and abiogenesis are NOT science though.
Originally posted by BadabingScience is applying mathematical truths to matter. Faith is trusting something which cannot be proven.
I wasn't singling out any one person. 👆I've never understood the issue with the big bang vs creation. I guess I've always been able to separate science from Faith. Imo, science is necessary to learn the mysteries of the universe. Faith is necessary for the same reason to me. srug
Anyway, the science of the big bang always leads to either a paradox or infinity. Science has taken us to these conclusions. Either the universe popped into existence from nothing or our universe is part of an infinite multiverse. Neither sits well with me. It's either a chicken and the egg paradox or an infinite singularity.
As for life. Darwinism work great, and is proven, for small changes. See domestication of animals. But on a grand scale it falls apart badly. To say a single celled microbe evolved into complex, self aware life is not realistic to me. Most life is more complex than any machine that's been built. Let's say we find a fully functioning watch on another planet. Would you think it just occurred naturally or was it built by something intelligent?
Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist or biologist. So my opinions are that of a laymen. But I think both science and faith have a place in discovering the deeper mysteries of the universe and life.
It's possible scientists are wrong about how the universe began, but that doesn't mean it was God. It could have been through some process we have yet to understand.
I'd want evidence before saying it was willed into existence.
And then what willed God into existence and also if you will say God has always existed why is that possible but it the big bang is not?
Originally posted by Blakemore
the big bnag theory was disproven by Hawking himself. It was bosons, positrons and electrons creating a lot of fire and rapidly expanding. The universe has been expanding and contracting for all eternity.
But then the question from someone of faith will be where did those things come from
Originally posted by Surtur
It's possible scientists are wrong about how the universe began, but that doesn't mean it was God. It could have been through some process we have yet to understand.I'd want evidence before saying it was willed into existence.
And then what willed God into existence and also if you will say God has always existed why is that possible but it the big bang is not?
I've said many times, Surtur, that special Creation is a religious belief. I've never said it was scientifically provable. I just think it's far more logical than the Big Bang theory. I know you disagree and that's fine.
However, I think that the burden of proof is on the proponents of the Big Bang and Darwinian evolution because they want taxpayers to pay for it being taught in our schools, which we've all been doing for a while now. I think that's unfair and one reason I'm a strong advocate for home schooling.
Originally posted by Surtur
But then the question from someone of faith will be where did those things come from
Someone who believes in the Big Bang and/or Darwinian evolution is also a person of faith despite what some scientists may say. In fact, I'd say that everyone on the planet has faith in something. Leftists, for example, have faith in big government being able to fix everything, which is stupid but they are leftists, afterall. When people constantly use a certain news source they are putting faith in that source to tell them the truth. We all put faith in things that history books tell us are true. We weren't there to experience for ourselves what the books are claiming. Everyone to some degree or another is a person of faith.
We all have very strong faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. We have faith that if a person walks off a mountain that they will die a horrible death because we all have faith in gravity always working.