The Endless vs Ivory kings w/ PF King Thor

Originally posted by leonidas
that's how doom was able to beat them. something to do with an inability to see time the way other abstracts do or something. cant'r recall the details. not sure the endless would know that or be able to take advantage if they could figure it out. /shrug

Well if we assume the Endless are actually fighting (which, like I said, is.......Weird, because they don't fight), and we assume a neutral universe where all powers work as well as the native universes....

Destiny would know.

that's true i suppose. though according to marvel i think they are outside normal creation--not limited to toaa's creation, so i guess it's possible destinyn would be unable to see them. i would THINK destiny would lack the ability to see the destinies of those other multiverses in dc created by other perpetuas.
maybe? either way, i'm still not sure how exactly they could turn that knowledge--if they could get it--into any kind of combat advantage though. weird battle.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's true i suppose. though according to marvel i think they are outside normal creation--not limited to toaa's creation, so i guess it's possible destinyn would be unable to see them. i would THINK destiny would lack the ability to see the destinies of those other multiverses in dc created by other perpetuas.
maybe? either way, i'm still not sure how exactly they could turn that knowledge--if they could get it--into any kind of combat advantage though. weird battle.

Pretty much. Remember that the beyond realm is actually outside the omniverse (the gateway leads to the beyond realm):

https://imgur.com/a/OjWNomX

Also, fun fact: The beyonders originally were explicitly described as transcending labels such as being chronological/linear:

https://imgur.com/a/mfAcWs5

And it doesn't make sense at all that beings who exist outside creation and have limitless reality warping abilities (even a tiny silver of their powers like cosmic cubes can) would be limited by time travel. Their defeat was the very definition of PIS but it is what it is.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well if we assume the Endless are actually fighting (which, like I said, is.......Weird, because they don't fight),

In #7 Dream fought John Dee. He also fought Azazel in #27. But most notably in Overture #3 it was recounted that he was usurped and imprisoned within his own realm and only managed to reclaim it with the help of one of Desire's constructs.

Dream, yes.

I was referring to people like Destiny etc.

morpheus took the few thousand survivors from the multiverse collapse, fed off their dreams to recreate the entire existence/multiverse

https://imgur.com/a/npsHnsT

that's what he did with the minds of only a few thousand mortals and aliens, imagine what power he can generate with entire universe of beings, entire multiverse...

he puts the freaking Ultimator to sleep, the same 10th dimension ultimator that was a big threat to mxy
https://imgur.com/a/FRIv6

"I am the material manifestation of implicate/explicate reality. I am what can be, what should be, what would be, what might be - and what is, of course. It is my destiny to ingest all other dimensions and lifeforms - to make them part of myself."

ultimator was capable of eating universes inside fictional comic books and killing 5th dimensional imps like flies

and morpheus put him into eternal sleep, and for people saying ultimator story is made up....no it happened. it's canon
https://imgur.com/a/vioUBNx

Meanwhile...beyonders get killed by planetary detonation of starbrand. gets chopped up by thor and hyperion. gets turn into tree.....LOL

this is a mismatch in the biggest proportion. and of the endless solos with their eyes closed in attosecond

Originally posted by Astner
The Endless are in effect abstracts, which the Beyonders exterminated. Not to mention that the limited showings of the Endless puts them at a disadvantage to their existing counterparts in Marvel begin with.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661973&pagenumber=1

I think you miss out on this discussion, I think it's pointless to repeat this topic but the jist of it is-- basically marvel abstracts are small piss ants compare to the outerversal gods that are the endless, the endless are personification of essential laws and principles in all existence.

Doesent them being essential laws and principles in itself make them abstract? Isnt that what abstracts are?

It gets so confusing and vague when you get to these levels.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Doesent them being essential laws and principles in itself make them abstract? Isnt that what abstracts are?

Beyonder has the power to wipe an abstract from existence. The Ivory Kings stomp.

Originally posted by MrMind
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661973&pagenumber=1

I think you miss out on this discussion, I think it's pointless to repeat this topic but the jist of it is-- basically marvel abstracts are small piss ants compare to the outerversal gods that are the endless, the endless are personification of essential laws and principles in all existence.

The Endless, under Gaiman, operate on a universal scale. They came into being shortly after the universe was created and Death will be last Endless standing when the universe ends. The word multiverse is never used in Gaiman's run.

That said, the Endless can be fought and killed—and they have, hence why Daniel Hall succeeded Morpheus—they have limits to their powers, and there are beings more powerful than they are.

I'm not sure what feats the Endless have in their DC cameos, but going by Gaiman's stories they're not more powerful than the Marvel Abstracts.

Originally posted by MrMind

Meanwhile...

1) beyonders get killed by planetary detonation of starbrand.

gets chopped up by thor and hyperion.

gets turn into tree.....LOL

2) Absolute 100% bull shit

3) Due to it first, manifesting in a vulnerable form ...
and second, it (Beyonder) NOT attacking or defending itself ever.
It just stood there, waiting for it's vulnerable m-body to get tree-warped.

Originally posted by MrMind

endless solos with their eyes closed in attosecond

marvel abstracts are small piss ants compare to the outerversal gods that are the endless,

3 BeyonderS wtfstomed and killed the embodiment of the trans-infinite Multiverse in its entirety.

All Multiversal concepts rolled into one. (All would-be Endless)

Yet ... stomp! ... killed!

That's the outcome when they're not holding back. 👆

Originally posted by Astner
What the **** is outerversal?

The Endless, under Gaiman, operate on a universal scale. They came into being shortly after the universe was created and Death will be last Endless standing when the universe ends. The word multiverse is never used in Gaiman's run.

That said, the Endless can be fought and killed—and they have, hence why Daniel Hall succeeded Morpheus—they have limits to their powers, and there are beings more powerful than they are.

I'm not sure what feats the Endless have in their DC cameos, but going by Gaiman's stories they're not more powerful than the Marvel Abstracts.

ehh to be honest In most of there series universe where just a reference to multiverse especially sandman and Vertigo..

It's confirmed universe and multiverse means the same in gaiman's Canon. All endless are easily multiversal + at least the big 3 dream, death, destiny.

He felt the upcoming destruction of the multiverse (use as universe here )..I really don't think old king thor is spitting

A lot of time writers is the word universe as a substitute for multiverse also dream came out in dark metal or whatever the arc was called

the same scenario was all over vertigo too..there existence reformed the universe (which is multiverse)

While you can argue that Gaiman's universe is a multiverse, since it does contain Heaven, Hell, Asgard, the Fair Lands, etc. the problem with that argument is that a universe in Marvel also contains similar worlds.

I see you old farts r schoolin' the pups. Hehe.

First u have to get them to believe that comic books were around waaaaay before 2010!

not that we don't know it before, but yeah dream solos
Daniel just went to the overvoid and created new everything

Originally posted by Astner
While you can argue that Gaiman's universe is a multiverse, since it does contain Heaven, Hell, Asgard, the Fair Lands, etc. the problem with that argument is that a universe in Marvel also contains similar worlds.

the entire beyond realm is only comparable to comparable to fourth world or dark multiverse via statements. it's smaller than monitor realm

the current marvel multiverse is smaller than gaiman's creation by a mile

but then you will spew the same crap to discredit dc's cosmology again by saying vertigo/gaiman verse does not share the same omniverse as mainstream dcu (look at the multiverse map for crying out loud) even though you been disproved multiple times.

Now that I think about it
Basanos could defeat Beyonders, let alone the endless