EmperorThanos vs MartianMind- The Greatest Hero

Started by Damborgson1 pages

Damborgson King of the Damboys

Emperor:

MartianMind

Here's the DA RULES

- Winner by incapacitation (restrained for an unreasonably long period of time, knocked out, otherwise taken out of action, etc.) or death.

- BFR is OFF

- No summoning of tools or outside assistance. Only what is reasonably considered standard gear may be used.

- Prep Time (5 seconds of prep before each match, then both character will hear the "ding" and the fight will begin)

- And for the fun one.....ALL FIGHTS ARE IN CHARACTER. That's right, you'll have to argue as you'd argue in the VS section. Just a lot better.

Location

The room of spirit and time. Essentially a featureless environment with a ring the size of the planet earth. You will start on opposite ends and then find each other.

REWARD

Spoiler:
THIS DIC-

A custom signature and the title "the greatest hero"

Any questions?

Edit Match Format

3 Posts

Blind Opener

Rebuttal

Closing

3 judges, or two vote majority victory

Damborgson King of the Damboys

Emperor Opener:

EmperorThanos wrote on Aug 19th, 2019 04:02 PM:
Alright so this is my battlezone post so sorry if it is not up to par.
[SIZE=3]Silver Surfer
I'll start of with speed because I think that will be one of the more contested parts of this debate. I think Surfer is faster of the two, he has consisted showings in the Nanosecond- FTL range.
The first example of this is I shall bring up is when Silver Surfer was able to escape from a trap with a nanosecond to spare.
https://imgur.com/a/HYbUJSx
He was able to jump right through ignite a portal and then jump through when he couldn't spare another nano-second.
https://imgur.com/a/u0EKerk
Of course he has shown to go even faster than this like when he was able to quickly catch up to Darkhawk who was moving at 3 times the speed of light.
https://imgur.com/a/5222MK3
While he did use his board, Silver Surfer has shown on multiple occasions to use his board to his advantage against an opponent.
For example he did this against Nova Prime who is quite fast himself but found himself being initially blitzed by Surfer
https://imgur.com/a/wVBdu6H
Another example was when he fought his doppelganger who was equal to him in every way the two of them were able to fight at extremely high speeds across large distances in space.
https://imgur.com/a/Gbuf8BT
In terms of strength I'd say Surfer has fought and beaten down people who are extremely strong and durable.
Such as Beta Ray Bill who Surfer beat into submission with a couple of strikes. The same BRB who has survived explosions including one an issue earlier to this.
https://imgur.com/a/kBGORSg
He also took on Green Scar in Sakaar. He was being contain/controlled but was still able to overpower the hulk.
https://imgur.com/a/dAjaHFh
Surfer is also really durable too. He is able to deal with planet melting heat without much trouble, so heat vision shouldn't be an issue.
http://i.imgur.com/3yQc4pV.jpg
He also took a bullrush from Nova Prime and no sold their crash on to the planet below them.
https://imgur.com/a/qxOXnpZ
And most recently he tanked the shockwaves of planet busting attack that hurt Warlock.
https://imgur.com/a/wwogp5y
As for a feat that doubles for both strength and durability, Here is his fight with Korvac where he takes two planet level attacks one after the other. First a planet busting blast followed by a planets worth of debris. Which he easily breaks out of with his strength.
https://imgur.com/a/a7vsy6o
And he has quite crazy Regen as seen when he fought uni lord. He was sliced, balsts into into paste, turned into small balls and was fine after it all.
https://i.imgur.com/pymVwAN.jpg
Now Surfer's most important ability is his energy manipulation. Surfer has on occasions shown that he can destroy planets with his blasts. He once did so just to prove a point against Ravenous.
https://imgur.com/a/OWXoRQs
He and morg also destroyed a planet as a result of their fight. The two colliding and destroyed the planet they were on.
https://imgur.com/a/bu5PLFX
He has also created a blackhole as a result of his energy blast.
https://imgur.com/a/XaHvDLF
Now the final thing I will touch upon is Telepathy. Since that is Martian Manhunters bread and butter.
Silver Surfer is quite a good telepath himself. Having displayed telepathy on planetary scale when he calmed down the entire population of a planet.
https://imgur.com/a/IkoZTfu
He has also resisted moondragon who had the mind gem. The same moondragon who TPed Xavier in that very issue.
https://imgur.com/a/k6wTAQ6
That should be it for my opener. Like I said first time so I do hope it meets the standards of one these.

Damborgson King of the Damboys

Martian Opener:

Hey Dambo, here's my OP for the tournament. Thanks again for hosting this.

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, here we are. A classic throwdown for the ages. Two interstellar hunks, one green, one silver. Their powers are diverse, and considerable in their scope. That said, there is only one that really matters in this contest, and it is the one in which my chrome opponent is least competent.

Telepathy.

Yes, the Surfer has a plethora of tricks. All require the use of his mind, however, something of which he will be completely deprived. I mean, we know for a fact that Surfer’s mind has been breached before-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Doctor-Strange-Sorcerer-Supreme/Issue-31?id=33832#7
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Doctor-Strange-Sorcerer-Supreme/Issue-31?id=33832#8

And that he can be outright controlled-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Infinity-Crusade/Issue-1?id=65889#21
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Infinity-Crusade/Issue-2?id=65890#24

And mentally linked against his will-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Cable-and-Deadpool/Issue-10?id=19861#8

Now, what does this mean, you ask? Well, considering that J’onn is far and away one of the most powerful telepathic heroes in all of comicdom, it essentially means that the Surfer is screwed. I mean, we are talking about an individual who can casually read the minds of every being in the galaxy-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-Heaven-s-Ladder/Full?id=102559#70

Mindrape the entire population of Arkham-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-84?id=39351#7

Whilst simultaneously freezing a squad of mercenaries in place-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-84?id=39351#11

AND whilst keeping the entire population of Blackgate docile.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-84?id=39351#12

So, a single mind isn’t going to be much of a challenge. I mean, Superman has one of the most resilient minds in existence, right? Yet J’onn can wipe his mind on a whim, along with the rest of the Justice League's-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-58?id=39322#5
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-58?id=39322#6

And send him plummeting from hundreds of miles away-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#14
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#15

Now, it should be noted in the above scan, that J’onn had been kept in a flaming cage and dosed up on flaming tranquilisers for literally MONTHS beforehand. Immediately prior, he mindraped what is essentially every prominent villain DC had to offer, including Gorilla Grodd, who is HIMSELF a formidable telepath.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#8
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#9
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#10
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#11
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Requiem/Full?id=85348#12

So he really wasn’t in peak form. That didn’t stop him, however, and nor will any paltry psychic defences Surfer has to offer. Any crack is enough for J’onn to exploit, and as I’ve shown, those cracks certainly exist. I guess I’ll get this out of the way now, as well. All those feat I posted? In fact, any of J’onn’s appearances during the late-nineties to mid-2000’s? His telepathy wasn’t at full power. You see, for years, J’onn was keeping the Key in check. Who’s the Key, you ask? He’s a JLA villain, one with immense mental powers, whom J’onn kept in a coma, 24/7. He only awoke when J’onn was abducted during Infinite Crisis, and placed in another dimension.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-120?id=39267#10
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-120?id=39267#11

How powerful was he, you ask? Well, he could here MILLIONS of thoughts, all at once.
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-124?id=39271#4

And yet J’onn was STILL able to keep him in check. You know what’s even more impressive? He wasn’t even the only one! J’onn was also keeping the original Prometheus, himself no slouch in the will department, in a psychic loop-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Faces-of-Evil-Prometheus/Full?id=86500#3
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Faces-of-Evil-Prometheus/Full?id=86500#4
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Faces-of-Evil-Prometheus/Full?id=86500#5

You read that right folks. For years, J’onn was keeping two powerful minds dormant, all while still being one of the greatest, most active telepaths DC has to offer. Are you really going to sit there, and try and say that he can’t affect one, feeble mind? One which we know has been breached before? Surely not. To do so would be lunacy!

There isn’t much more to say, really. You’ve seen the sort of mental havoc that a serious J’onn can wreak, and you know that Surfer is vulnerable to such shenanigans. To win this fight, all J’onn has to do is think, and in doing so, any strategy my opponent can offer will be rendered utterly moot. This ladies and gentlemen, is an open and shut case.

May the best alien win.

Martian_mind telepathy+debates+=Pwned

*Rebuttal*

Alright, there isn’t much for me to refute here, so I guess I’ll just dive in to keep the ball rolling.

Essentially, none of my opponent’s post is relevant. It offers no strategy as to how he will win this fight, and merely puts forward a bunch of (rather unimpressive) stats. The only one that will have any bearing on this fight is speed, an area in which Surfer has no advantage. I mean, is 3 times the speed of light meant to be impressive? Because J’onn can cover the distance between Mars and the sun in seconds, WHILE dragging along an opponent almost as strong as he is.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Brightest-Day/Issue-21?id=22144#9
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Brightest-Day/Issue-21?id=22144#10
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Brightest-Day/Issue-21?id=22144#11

*Also note how he is able to dump the ENTIRE population of earth’s mind into his opponent’s beforehand, despite his opponent also being a supreme telepath. Seriously, he’s going to turn Surfer into a mental pumpkin.

For those who don’t know, it takes sunlight precisely 12 minutes and 41 seconds to reach Mars. If we lowball, and say that it took J’onn 20 seconds to reach the sun (Which it clearly didn’t), that puts him at 38 times the speed of light. So, yeah, massively FTL, especially compared to Surfer’s paltry 3.

In terms of reaction times, well, J’onn can tag Wally West, the FASTEST Flash, and potentially the fastest character in comics, even while weakened, after having been on fire for HOURS.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-43?id=39306#7
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-43?id=39306#8
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-43?id=39306#9

*Note how he also blocks and disarms Wonder Woman, herself a super-fast, super-strong opponent, moments beforehand.

So Surfer isn’t going to be outreacting J’onn on any level. Especially as the fight will be almost entirely in Surfer’s mind. Why entirely, you say? Well, because as we all know, Surfer is very vulnerable to a good, hard pounding.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Incredible-Hulk-2000/Issue-95?id=61736#18
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Incredible-Hulk-2000/Issue-95?id=61736#19

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Cosmic-Powers-Unlimited/Issue-1?id=121133#23
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Cosmic-Powers-Unlimited/Issue-1?id=121133#24
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Cosmic-Powers-Unlimited/Issue-1?id=121133#25

Which means that a few solid punches from J’onn, in concert with a psychic attack, will be more than enough to put him down for the count. After all, we know J’onn can multi-task in this fashion-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-International-1987/Issue-1-7-A-New-Beginning?id=50538#133
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-International-1987/Issue-1-7-A-New-Beginning?id=50538#134

*Note how J’onn’s durability is a source of frustration. Also note that the person he’s mentally combating is the Gray Man, a trans-level Lord of Order.
Hell, when J’onn wants to, he can take on the entire Justice League, and shrug off a cheap shot from Superman himself.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1998/Issue-7?id=29323#13
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1998/Issue-7?id=29323#14
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1998/Issue-7?id=29323#15
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1998/Issue-7?id=29323#16
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1998/Issue-7?id=29323#17

Can you honestly see Surfer doing the same? Restraining Orion, Big Barda and Wonder Woman all at once? No, you can’t, because even in a physical confrontation, J’onn is very much Surfer’s superior, and he doesn’t need a goddamn surf board backing him up.

Alright, well I guess that’s it for now. I’ve proven Surfer is vulnerable to physical attacks, and I’ve proven he’s vulnerable to my mental attacks. That one showing against Moondragon doesn’t negate his history of being mentally infiltrated or dominated, nor does the rather nothing feat of *calming* a planet’s population. J’onn operates on a galactic level, FFS. A planet’s population is nothing to him.
And you know what?

The Surfer is nothing, as well.

EmperorThanos Member

So my opponent seems to rely totally on telepathy because based on his other showings he clear has nothing else going for him. I'm going to address some his showings against Surfer being TPed and then mention why Surfer wins at the end.

First in regards to the 3 instance of Surfer being tped. First the cable example, nothing in those scans really suggest he was being linked against his will. If cable could really have TPed Surfer he would have done so during their fight but Surfer still beat him and he lost.
Then there's the feat with the goddess where you conveniently ignore all the context behind what happened there. Like the fact that the person who TPed him was the goddess who was using more than 2 dozen cosmic cubes to amp her TP on a universal scale. Her Tp reached across multiple realities.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/IeehKys72ZuI9D31ehRDOa4EM4JkHSX6hax3DJMVi1c1_gWdXbxYr7SsWqQglz9AHInCqub1BweZ=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Wowk-JFHcYNab4zFlMaVS1A2ZA_Ya8qWk17mwEQOrQKkudddnZAy2bOeIyV8HfzmhCysY8GZNibZ=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/i6V8YN5rnKfA_z4MiavcuC9TIuJm9CK4RRAUWn1F20jGXqquJIo_DCFGtECviLk7Bw-KbWxi4pRF=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/bmPD1ukqxjfXGEvnrtW2d9GdzXYVuMHKHes2bZhv3TME-6jKeFH_gmq1-rwXY4B8oG0ctwOMr11J=s1600
She is way above MMH in TP. And despite all this Surfer still managed to dissobey her orders and free himself of her. On top of dealing with Moondragon's telepathy.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/vfKXRLaFIi-L9SCAIxZHlOWy1l6fFery9BbQxPEEXSD-TtZ89tAv7Yu6liG2JkyX9jXJZZr2Xji_=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/v5rw5QEXhoJSh8MvbSEfZZqdryeq4iURyqNi0Lq9zRDH7-VfxFa47LwYImgPdWIlS6guBN_Fjj7K=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ak0acnHjS4vLmCF2jY37MLveO5QGZRjwH0IK6rpk3fmzUqzmsOU6F4M4uyZwE9CcjIFtvd4z4xXk=s1600
And speaking of Moondragon. She was unable to enter Surfers mind while at the same time was able to TP Charles.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111324203/6622747-4282287241-24OklKTG4AO47MT8y8r2-GJA8tovtsUuNknkQPbCSaH2oGor5Qe7f-IdsKQOtorhdSQbSpQDyHcb%3Ds0
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111324203/6622748-6271846432-X64YtoCl8q86OIpXizbRemj-v8aba4OS45TA52786Z3O7yAGQFowTF4cKK-KAuGG1jMDJUHoz4E4%3Ds0
Same Xavier who fought and beat Dark Phoniex in a TP battle over every plane of existence.
https://imgur.com/a/aFv5f

Finally there is Strange instance. While Strange did enter his mind Surfer was more than aware and the two talked and Surfer just lets Strange show him everything. He doesn't try fight back.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Bll5-6JjuLxEy0gNtzcJ04VOuZI2k-7LOVh0mEJZ93ZwSUDVCmBxEy0weA66lFJTEbTG60ctJXcS=s1600

He has also fought back and resisted the other by channeling his cosmic energy through is concisous. The other are extra dimensional beings capable of facing Galactus.
http://i.imgur.com/Aqyx3Ng.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SbPzPh0.jpg

As for how Surfer wins. Well my opponent has shown about 0 durability feats in both his posts. A single planet busting blast is honestly all that is needed for surfer to win, and he can casually produce that. He could probably do it physically to since he was able to take down BRB that way a person who has tanked planet busting attacks before.
Manhunter also doesn't have a good track record against energy attacks. Breach was able to one shot him and he doesn't have planet busting showings.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/rVW8B9jK2VTBv6hMDjcrkPtUo9xeexNA3t47xUm7iqJiu8mCTjzI-Eu41jSE5PnKWsWusFhseucE=s0
I am aware MMH has regen but Surfer has means around that. He can simply disperse his atoms.
https://imgur.com/a/YGr5vPU
He can also attack MMH's soul and kill him that way.
https://imgur.com/a/ydu2k36
Really Surfer has multiple ways of winning. But the basic involving using his superior speed to simply blitz his opponent and then one shot with an energy attack.
This just address your opener I know you showed some speed feats and strength feats in your rebutal which I will address in my closer.

EmperorThanos Member

Was told some of my scans were not working. Here are the Goddess Telepathy Scans.
https://imgur.com/a/VWlnUEF

The strange clarification scan.
https://imgur.com/a/kE5i2vj

And the Breach scan
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/608252-551400_jla_023007_super.jpg

Martian_mind telepathy+debates+=Pwned

Really not a lot for me to work with here, but I guess I’ll do my best to keep this entertaining.

You’re saying I have nothing to offer but telepathy? Newsflash, I’ve already proven that J’onn is faster and stronger than Surfer, with the durability to shrug off cheap shots from Superman. All of that, in concert with my astounding telepathy, will be more than enough to put you down, especially since you haven’t presented anything approaching a viable strategy of attack.

Now, let’s address this “defence”.

You do realise that virtually none of your scans show what you’re claiming they do? Nothing about that shows the Goddesses’ telepathy to be multi-dimensional in scope. She says that one day it will be, but guess what, J’onn’s already IS. My first set of scans literally showed him dragging Manitou onto the Astral Plain from an entire dimension away, WHILE J’onn was unconscious, and keeping Prometheus under control. On top of that, it took Surfer DAYS to fend off her control, even while she was working her influence on several other heroes. Here, he will be the SOLE focus of a MUCH stronger telepath, who will also be physically kicking his arse for the (short) duration of this fight.

Now, as for this Moondragon debacle, I’m not sure how you think it helps your case. Surfer is floored by a single mindblast, sent by a telepath (a weaker one than J’onn) who is LIGHTYEARS away. All this proves is that J’onn’s unrelenting assault is the certain doom of Surfer, as he won’t even have time to get back to his feet.

I’m not really sure what the Strange scan is meant to prove. Strange is still in his mind, and Surfer is clearly very much not in control, and very vulnerable. It kinds of helps my case, as did the last set of scans, so thanks I guess?

The extra-dimensional beings are another beneficial scan. It shows that Surfer needs to concentrate fully in order to fend off telepathy, even when he’s dealing with a mere fragment (as per the scans) of the telepath’s mind. Again, he won’t have that the opportunity to concentrate as I pound his shiny arse, and considering he’ll be dealing with J’onn’s full and undivided attention (which very few characters can claim) there’s even less hope of him pulling out some miracle resist.

Now, as to your “attacks”. Well, where do I begin?

They are straight up bullshit. I’ve shown J’onn shrugging off cheap shots from Superman and Barda. If you really need more, than here, watch J’onn take an energy explosion better than the man of steel himself.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-53?id=39317#21
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-53?id=39317#22
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-54?id=39318#2

A blast of 4-dimensional energy catches the League off-guard, and yes, it knocks them all out. Who is closest to the blast, however? J’onn. He stays conscious the longest, and relays every bit of information to the team before finally succumbing. Not only does this show that he’s a tough SOB, it shows that no matter what, J’onn can maintain his telepathic endeavours, so Surfer, even if he SOMEHOW manages to conjure an attack, isn’t guaranteed to save himself. I won’t bother with the BRB scans. I’ve shown that Surfer is a wimp in H2H, and the fact that my opponent is clinging to that singular showing just reinforces the point. He didn’t even put BRB down, FFS. He got a few hits in, and the situation resolved. Here’s what happens when Surfer really tries to fight a Thor-class opponent.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#6
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#8
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#12
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#13
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#16
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#17
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-86?id=11807#24
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Warlock-and-the-Infinity-Watch/Issue-23?id=63817#2
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Warlock-and-the-Infinity-Watch/Issue-23?id=63817#3

He gets laid the f*ck out. Surfer is woefully outclassed, because a fighter, he is not. J’onn, however? He can give Superboy Prime pause.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Infinite-Crisis-2005/Issue-6?id=39434#20
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Infinite-Crisis-2005/Issue-6?id=39434#21

And manhandle multiple White Martians in seconds, while weakened.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-57?id=39321#11
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-57?id=39321#12

Hell, he can fend off DOZENS of them.
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-56?id=39320#18
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-56?id=39320#19
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-56?id=39320#20

A SINGLE White Martian can test Green Lantern, Orion, Steel, Plasticman and Big Barda-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#16
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#17
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#18
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#19
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#20
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-33?id=39295#21

And J’onn was fending off a horde! Surfer is outclassed against Thor, and barely stronger than classic Vision!

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Avengers-Epic-Collection-The-Avengers-Defenders-War/TPB?id=133085#44
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Avengers-Epic-Collection-The-Avengers-Defenders-War/TPB?id=133085#45

Meanwhile, J’onn can take on Triumph, a dude who GRANT MORRISON wrote to be ‘as strong, and as fast as Superman’

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-31?id=39293#7
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-31?id=39293#13

Now, this proves how resilient and capable J’onn is, yet as a final rebuttal to your feeble offence, let me put forward this obvious point: Phasing. Your claim that one energy blast will be enough is laughable, simply because J’onn can phase through any beam. He did it to Prime’s heat vision, and he’ll do it to any Surfer lets off, which will be none, because J’onn will have made him a vegetable.

As for this soul business, your scans even refer to it as an ASTRAL feat. ASTRAL being the realm of the telepath, AKA, J’onn. As my first post shows, J’onn can drag a person onto the astral plain from a dimension away. More than that, J’onn’s mind and soul are so powerful, that the ENTIRE Martian race couldn’t enter the afterlife, until he willingly chose to let them go-

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Martian-Manhunter-1988/Issue-4?id=29251#23

Which means that anyone trying to challenge him that way, well, good luck to them.

So, keeping that in mind, it should be obvious that J’onn is stronger, faster, and far tougher than Surfer will ever be. Any esoteric strategies that my opponent might put forward are irrelevant, as the battle will begin with a telepathic strike so powerful that Surfer is rendered comatose, and even if he SOMEHOW could resist, J’onn is a skilled multi-tasker, and has shown himself capable of a concerted mental and physical assault on many occasions. Surfer has NEVER shown the ability to repel such a fearsome combination, and as such, has no genuine chance at winning this match. He will be a brain-dead statue, one that J’onn will deal with as easily as he dealt with the League, Maxima included.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-Task-Force/Issue-37?id=46105#11
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-Task-Force/Issue-37?id=46105#12

As you can see, J’onn could bring a cup of tea to this fight, and never spill a drop. Vote right, fair judges.

Vote Martian.

Damborgson King of the Damboys

EmperorThanos wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 09:24 AM:
There is a lot of scaling and out of context scans being posted here which I'll have to address.
In terms of speed. Going to Mars is seconds is decent but in my own opener I showed better. Why would you address just the 3 times light speed feat and not the feat where I show Surfer fighting his clone across multiple planetary distances not just one.
Of course Surfer has better feats. And ones that are actually quantifiable and don't rely on scaling from other characters.
Such has when Surfer casually traveled a Quintillion miles in a matter of moments while sensing everything and keeping track of everything on the way. To put this into perspective it takes light a year to travel just below 6 trillion miles.
https://imgur.com/a/0G3LT9N
Surfer has also travel through multiple galaxies almost instantly. Like he did here, where he travels a massive distance, passing galaxies like a blur. For reference the Milky-way's diameter 105 thousand light years and the Andromeda galaxy's diameter is 220 thousand light years. Even if galaxies is just 2, that's ridiculously fast.
http://i.imgur.com/t00UZV7.jpg
That would requires more than thousand times the speed of light to be able to do. Compared to
There is simply a massive difference in speed if those feats are the best you got for Martian Manhunter. He would be a statue to Surfer really.
He once struggled to keep up with a ship that was moving 8 times the speed if light and need to use TK to stay on it.
https://imgur.com/a/UagBT
So his speed is inconsistent, even with the higher ends he pales in comparison to Surfer's high ends. Tagging Wally is nice but he really isn't as fast as Wally so I'm not sure where you are going with that feat. Wally does have a habit of getting tagged fairly often by people slower than him. Don't think ti's an indication of their speed. And WW is fast but no where near Surfer fast.
Now on to strength. I'm not sure where you are going with the Hulk example. I already showed that in direct conflict between those two Surfer over power Green Scar.
https://imgur.com/a/dAjaHFh
The only reason Hulk even go close to Surfer was through a diversion caused by his team maters. Which resulted in Surfer's disk being broken. Surfer wasn't event trying to fight back, he was thanking Hulk before Hulk just started hitting him.
https://imgur.com/a/qTME3O1
Despite this Surfer was fine right after and was able to free everyone.
https://imgur.com/a/7drW4HW
Not only that Surfer outright states that planet had made him weak.
https://imgur.com/a/QtmHpC5
This really isn't in anyway a low showing for Surfer if you read the full comic. Surfer without cosmic power was able to over power Hulk, who required help and a distraction to even get close to surfer. He then pounded a weakened Surfer who wasn't even fighting back anymore. Surfer still was fine despite said pounding and just up and freed everyone.
This simply shows how durable surfer is given he was able to tank a beatdown from the Green Scar whilst weakened. This one of the strongest versions of Hulk, really only Space Punisher and World Breaker are stronger. Just the sideeffect of his weaker incarnations have planetary effects
http://i.imgur.com/2hSqSdM.png
https://imgur.com/a/DkEXH
MMH is strong but he isn't Hulk strong.
Now the Thanos one is a genuine but to be honest that doesn't really help you. This Thanos, a transcendent tier character who has destroyed planets as a side effect of collisions, once against Drax and most recently against Thane. He beats up just about every marvel hero there is. And he would do the same to Martian Manhunter.
In terms of durability though, I already showed Surfer shaking of to planet level attacks back to back. But he has other feats. Like being able to fight in a black hole that was said to be able to destroy just about any object or entity. He not only fought Red Shift but was able to take him out. Note that Red Shift too was able to deal with the black hole.
https://imgur.com/a/glowSC2
He also tanked strikes from Thor on numerous occasions. One such occasions was when he fought Warrior Madness Thor. He took repeated Hammer strikes from an essentially bloodlusted Thor whilst simply trying to talk him down. He tanks several strikes and seems to be fine. Thor just prior to this had busted a planet when fighting BRB, just to get an idea of how strong he is.
https://imgur.com/a/RkvjILZ
Surfer is more than durable enough to fight MMH hand to hand if it comes to that.
As for Martian's feats. In that JLA instance, looks like Malefic is aiding him is keeping Orion in check. With help I could honestly see Surfer do the same.
Now could MMH do something like beat down BRB the way Surfer did? The same BRB who tanked being on an exploding planet with no damage what so ever.
https://imgur.com/a/AAD4Wuz
I'm not even sure if MMH has any durability feats on BRB's level. And even if MMH proves too durable I showed multiple ways for which surfer can simply get around that. He has matter manipulation and soul manipulation at his disposal which can both bypass any durability issues.
Overall it MMH's only real way of winning is through telepathy. Now I have shown several instances of Surfer resisting TP on MMHs level. However even if that isn't enough, Surfer is simply way faster to begin with. He could simply blitz and one shot MMH with an energy attack before MMH can tp him. In terms of their other feat Surfer's on panel examples are just better in both speed and durability while MMH seems to rely a lot more on scaling. So overall I do think Surfer can simply blitz MMH and win quickly using an energy attack or if he somehow manages to survive that using his matter manip.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

DarkSaint85 wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 02:47 PM:
Right, so I have finally had a chance to sit down and do these BZs. Entertaining match guys, and ET, you're new to KMC, so kudos for stepping up.
This seems a straightforward match in terms of tactics. MMH's telepathy/phasing, vs Surfer's speed/energy blasts. To me, this is keeping both contestants in character, so it's sound.
Martian_mind, your experience on these boards shows. You stuck to your arguments, and tried to nullify what you rightly saw was your biggest danger - the speed argument.
ET, unfortunately, you were on the back foot a lot of the time with your posts - reacting and trying to rebut Martian's arguments, rather than arguing your own corner. Whilst you had speed scans, to me, they weren't enough to convince me that Surfer would be able to attack before MMH could phase. Certainly as MMH can both attack (TP) and defend (phase) at the same time - and that is WITHOUT getting into the durability part of MMH.
In short: My vote goes to Martian_mind - but EmperorThanos, you definitely have the chops to hang.

Martian_mind telepathy+debates+=Pwned

Cheers for judging DS! Hopefully we can get PR's verdict in soon, and hopefully that can inform our next step.

Bentley Seitei

Ok, I'm going to post directly in the thread.

First of all, thanks for the fun read, it was a lively debate despite of the boring *ss characters you both picked.

General thoughts: Both Martian Mahunter and Silver Surfer are battlezone beasts, so I had hight expectations on how this debate would go. Despite being only vaguely familiar with the Manhunter Martianmind did a decent job using DC's trademark retcons to explain how his character was stronger than years and years of comics showed us. That was random but fun. I'm less impressed by the showings SS was shown to do, it came to your random blasts mostly but it could work for a straightforward case. None of you did outline a clear plan of attack in your original post, but it came clearer during your replies.

Debating: MartianMind did a pretty good job not fully relying in his TP and calling into question the feats that were relevant for his game plan. I was swayed to believe Surfer is not a physical behemoth nor a solid anti-telepath argument. He even questioned his fighting speed, going as to claim that his character was faster, which is wow, a bold claim that went unchallenged. EmperorThanos's went more into the defensive as his claims were challenged more, which imo played into MM's hand, who wanted to enhance the idea he had an advantage here.

Vote: I think that Surfer had the potential to win this battle with the right scans, but his strategy was probably too straightforward and not backed as much as it could. Potentially I can see Norrin bullrushing Martian Manhunter, but he's a character that is bulky and able to multitask, so a more complex strategy was needed to really deal with him in my opinion. As such, Martian_mind wins this round for me. Congratulations!

Martian_mind telepathy+debates+=Pwned

Fantastic! Thank you so much for judging Bentley, and thank you for the match, Emperor!