Supermutant vs Beatboks - TGH - SEMI FINALS

Supermutant:

vs

Beatboks

Here's the DA RULES

- Winner by incapacitation (restrained for an unreasonably long period of time, knocked out, otherwise taken out of action, etc.) or death.

- BFR is OFF

- No summoning of tools or outside assistance. Only what is reasonably considered standard gear may be used.

- Prep Time (5 seconds of prep before each match, then both character will hear the "ding" and the fight will begin)

- And for the fun one.....ALL FIGHTS ARE IN CHARACTER. That's right, you'll have to argue as you'd argue in the VS section. Just a lot better.

Location

The room of spirit and time. Essentially a featureless environment with a ring the size of the planet earth. You will start on opposite ends and then find each other.

REWARD

Spoiler:
THIS DIC-

A custom signature and the title "the greatest hero"

Any questions?

Edit Match Format

3 Posts

Blind Opener

Rebuttal

Closing

3 judges, or two vote majority victory

Supermutant OP:

How’s that for Brightest Light!!

So Alan Scott keeper of the green flame vs the mighty Thor god of thunder.

Or magical Starheart wielding energy being vs energy absorbing magical countering weapon, hmmn. I’m almost ashamed at how easy this is, almost and not b/c Alan is weak. He is quite powerful, but this is just a horrible matchup for him.

I can’t even make this up, Alan literally leaks this green energy.
https://imgur.com/5e4J0eN

Alan aka “Sentinel’s body was composed of the green flame, the magic that powers him.” As you can see Mordru left him comatose and near death by taking much of it.
https://imgur.com/qbLzzor

Mr Terrific states, “your body, your being is composed entirely of green flame.”
https://imgur.com/D237Ycc

MJOLNIR’S MENU

So no need to delay the inevitable outcome, my main avenue of attack will simply be for mjolnir to devour this green flame energy. Like here when mjolnir gobbles down the magical flame of the underworld god Pluto, in mid flight. Hercules was completely paralyzed from the same attack that Mjolnir just ate on the run.
https://imgur.com/onvAtRD

And like here when the nuclear energy being the Presence gets swallowed up by mjolnir, and only saved by Thor’s mercy.
https://imgur.com/a/Gjfq8mR

By the way, this is no small feat as the Presence has resisted absorption before by generating the energy of a small sun, and overloading a massive atomic amoeba. But of course he couldn’t come close to overloading mjolnir.
https://imgur.com/GtRx8U3

And the Presence has one-shotted via bfr a charging Hulk with a mere gesture of his fingers, by producing the force of a miniature hydrogen bomb. So the Presence while pretty powerful still got eaten relatively easily by mjolnir.
https://imgur.com/YeBLgVH
https://imgur.com/Vh1K1Df
https://imgur.com/olcnwD8

So, a few more examples of energy based beings being absorbed against their will by mjolnir. There are plenty more, as absorption is probably what mjolnir does best.

The radiation from X-ray is completely absorbed while Vector’s power is resisted by Thor. Leaving a depleted X-Ray koed while mjolnir used his energy to also koed Vector. Likewise, Alan will be depleted and incapacitated.

Mjolnir munches on Electro and then sends him bye-bye. Of course I can just keep enough of the green flame to leave Alan koed, repurpose the energy, or completely obliterate him with anti-force.
https://imgur.com/a3xZmUh

Mjolnir is so good at absorbing energy that it even does so, when not directed by Thor. As just a byproduct of fighting the Phoenix Force, mjolnir absorbs small traces of it. Even more than the Phoenix cage that was designed for such a task.
https://imgur.com/hksg08C

And just for the record, magic is no defense. All it does is make one more susceptible to being drained. Just ask the Wrecking Crew. Notice how they were koed from having their powers drained and turned back into mere mortals. Here the complete draining process will more than likely kill Alan, since he is all energy. But even if it didn’t he would still end up being just a powerless regular human.
https://imgur.com/VlmLsjR

Loki amped Wrecker left powerless again and turned back into a mere mortal.
https://imgur.com/byTB73b

Cosmic forces of limitless power still gets eaten and rechanneled. So good luck trying to overload mjolnir or attempting to regain your energy from it.
https://imgur.com/RkNFI5v

Perrikus the dark god of power unlimited and infinite energy, still had his energy absorbed by mjolnir. Apparently Mjolnir guzzles energy like Thor chugs mead, “As mighty mjolnir doth drink of thine energy!”
https://imgur.com/a/jPKvOdS

The Power Cosmic energy + Loki’s magical amp combined in a zooming Silver Surfer was still consumed by mjolnir. And Thor was holding back suspecting that the Silver Surfer had been tricked. Alan Scott’s power will be a delicious delicacy for mjolnir.
https://imgur.com/6o3rcDu
https://imgur.com/SU8zwDA

Mjolnir is so fast that the Silver Surfer cannot catch it. Mjolnir will be moving at ftl speed at all times in this match.
https://imgur.com/FsOYH6A
https://imgur.com/Oj1acZS

Fast enough to fly right past a zooming Silver Surfer and smack Galactus.
https://imgur.com/qS9wJoC
https://imgur.com/zfxRgbh
https://imgur.com/WZyDR2M

Mjolnir can fly to the end of the galaxy and back in well under 60 seconds. So I actually have the speed advantage with mjolnir, since it is faster than anyone or anything else in this match.
https://imgur.com/wpWYyua

CHOMP CHOMP

1.Thor uses the five seconds of prep to create a shield. A shield that can withstand the Phoenix Force. And starts spinning mjolnir as fast as he can.
https://imgur.com/vWStTb5

2.As soon as the match starts Mjolnir absorbs the green flame energy of Alan. Just like he does with a radioactive Kang below.
https://i.imgur.com/qffHit2.jpg

On more than one occasion, and magnifies the power of it. To the point of Kang reaching critical mass where he feared for his own safety. Bypassing Kang’s immunity to radioactivity is very impressive.
https://i.imgur.com/UGsM2Ah.jpg

2A.While Thor creates a planet size massive storm with Chaos King damaging lightning and cosmic hurricanes.
https://imgur.com/89LllzA
https://imgur.com/qjqRbAl

Thor summons the winds from a thousand worlds and creates a cosmic hurricane.
https://imgur.com/yGY4Jri

Mordru was able to break Alan’s concentration by causing vibrations in his inner ear. Just imagine what the winds from a thousand worlds would do.
https://i.imgur.com/wP1LPsK.jpg

3.Which results in Alan being koed, trapped, dead, or otherwise incapacitated. Just like Magneto below, Alan has no defense as his shields will be instantly sucked dry leaving him exposed and unprotected.
https://imgur.com/VJCRtBg

Alan is definitely vulnerable to an energy drain attack. Vandal Savage using magical dust leeched Alan’s power, and attacked him with the green flame in the form of Jade. Alan was drained to the point that he had to fight Savage hand to hand. The starheart energy eventually sided with Alan, but he was almost completely drained by a magical element that is far inferior to Mjolnir.
https://imgur.com/a/W5nkTUJ

The battlefield is essentially a featureless environment. So Mjolnir will absorb Alan’s energy from every direction free of concern for the welfare of other living things. Also notice how mjolnir can absorb energy, precede to attack another energy absorber with that same energy, and then siphon it all back.
https://imgur.com/qQQSHYA

Mjolnir has worldwide energy absorption range. So Alan cannot run or hide from having his energy drain on this Earth sized battlefield.
https://imgur.com/1pleoeq

Mjolnir has impressive tracking capabilities. And Alan will be easy to find as he will be the only one with an energy signature in this featureless environment.
https://imgur.com/vPsuNSb

What matters here is that Mjolnir being utilized by Worthy Thor, has never shown a limit to the amount of energy it can absorb and re-channel. Plus it’s a 100X energy multiplier. So not only does Mjolnir significantly weakens Alan immediately, its attacks can also grow in power to a ridiculously broken level.

https://imgur.com/a/EgBoHtl

The above scans are so relevant here, b/c they show what Thor and mjolnir can do as a tag team. First we have a Thanosi energy absorbed, then multiplied a 100 times and returned. Next Thor combines the most powerful of storms with an anti-force blast from mjolnir to achieve victory. An attack stated to be capable of destroying a planet. Absolutely confirming that I can do everything I mentioned in this post. The above scans display my plan here for the most part. Meaning mjolnir will absorb the starheart/green flame energy of Alan anywhere and everywhere on the battlefield. Plus Thor is literally dropping a planet size storm on his head. If Beatboks tries to play a defensive game, he gets absorbed very quickly. If he tries to blitz me somehow, I’m shielded and mjolnir is faster than him so he gets absorbed very quickly. Just in case Beatboks attempts to scale off of Jay’s speed. It’s clear that Alan is not in Jay’s speed class in combat.
https://imgur.com/RsI19fO
https://imgur.com/fBtWZrC
https://imgur.com/DOo8Hps

Or Jesse Quick’s speed class, she was just unable to damage him because he was amped. Alan was possessed by the full power of the Starheart. Not just a fraction of it in the form of the green flame, which is his normal power level.
https://imgur.com/JrOgyZv

Thor dominates Alan here under these stips. Judges remember all the great power of Alan that Beatboks will show, is going to return back at him multiplied by a hundred if necessary. Beatboks shouldn’t be surprised as Alan just doesn’t have the HEART to go the distance against Worthy Thor with Mjolnir.

Beatboks' ACTUAL OP

beatboks wrote on Aug 28th, 2019 05:37 AM:
Opening post in full

Alan Scot Vs Thor.

I here what your thinking True believers how can Alan who is basically living magic energy

https://m.imgur.com/Jn9Bm6r

https://i.imgur.com/GIJuIDW.png

do well vs the one Marvel character who carries a maguffin weapon capable of absorbing and controlling all maner of energy.

The answer true believers is in the rules of the tourney.

You see true believers in character
Thor fights like a warrior, using brawn not brain and only using the esoteric abilities of his mighty hammer once he has been categorically proven his muscles wont win the day.

https://imgur.com/d8P0x7D

https://imgur.com/H5XT1RK

Thor's own thoughts betray that here. It is his normal way to "thrive on combat"

Here for example in Thor 133 when he first faced Ego. When facing a livong planet that he had been shown was capable of altering molecules and building adversaries or bodies his equal still he fights with his physical might.

https://imgur.com/m9ApZlE

Hardly the type of thing that will win the day vs Alan.

Given Alan has a distinct speed and reaction advantage over "slowdinson" (as he is often referred)

Speed

Travels into hyperspace
https://m.imgur.com/eTihkvm

Intercepts Liberty Belle and Baroness Blitzkrieg
https://m.imgur.com/q36xj2f

Travels from the Moon to Earth in a very short time
https://m.imgur.com/GabOCW8

Easily keeps up with Jay Garrick
https://m.imgur.com/KALrUzc

Reacts within a nanosecond
https://i.imgur.com/nGUyGXv.png

Comparitively Thor

https://imgur.com/eKgO5KG

Openly admits that Logan (a street leveller) is faster than him, Alan can and has reacted to and kept up with the slower of DC's speedsters.

So true believers. My adversary will throw you all these wild and fascinating ideads of how he will drain the energy of Alan and use this to defeat him, but the actuality of how the god of thunder truly fights contradicts this as do the rules of this tournament.

Thor simply doesnt fight that way. Its not how he thinks or operates in character. By the time he thinks and considers those actions he will be in serious peril

Now true believers, lets compare that to the "character of Alan Scot"

His very first outing he killed those responsible for the deaths of his friends

https://imgur.com/qrA72h9
Which he did again in his second adventure

https://imgur.com/VpWJ8zh
And in adventure 3

https://imgur.com/dQSbxRH

Noticing a pattern are we

I mean I could post the results of quite a few more of Alan's tales where he kills his adversary but really is there a point?
Alan made a lot more appearances in the golden age than current (appearing monthly in All American, cavalcade comics, All-star and in Green Lantern) and GA was not as kind to the bad guys

Lets just say Alan fights hard and does what is needed to win or survive regardless.

Alan has and can make constructs that shatter the containments of and shield from and stop the_ spells of even Classic Dr Fate

https://imgur.com/0n4NVKg

https://imgur.com/aS9LGLB

His shields can Hold

https://imgur.com/cXb5Ehh

When those of the very same Classic Fate cant

https://imgur.com/MalQSwV

Classic Dr Fate has power well above that of Worthy Thor, and Alan's shields held vs the guy who put Classic Fate in a coma.

In the 5 seconds of prep Alan will erect such a shield.

When the bell rings he will then hit Thor with an assault like that of the entire japanese Imperial forces and the nuclear explosion of Nagasaki

While Thor is still reeling and recovering from this initial onslaught he will then attack Thor with a larger stronger more formidable version of himself

https://i.imgur.com/v2HaeGO.jpg

Said Thor casually defeated a beast that dropped Johnny Thunder and his 5th Dimensional Djinn

https://i.imgur.com/Iu0J9Kb.jpg

Alan will then attack the mind of Thor and use it against him

https://imgur.com/bpO9CXr

https://imgur.com/9X8mLz8

https://imgur.com/Zwik7G5

Making him act in ways he doesn't want to
Weakening Thor's resolve as he fights the forces he does.

True believers even if Thor did act out of character (contrary to the rules of this tourney) and use Mjilnor to try and drain Alan of his energy (which of course he never does out of the gate) it will avail him nothing since even when Alan has been completely depowered and his energy source destroyed he has been able to get it back with a little concentration.

https://i.imgur.com/xuMeXpO.jpg

Now given the speed and reaction difference the likelihood that even if the thunder god tried this he isn't draining Alan to that level before Alan gets it back but this clearly shows the power even when taken is still Alans to control

PART 1

The funniest (or most ironic) thing about Beatbok’s post is his laughable accusation of energy draining being out of character for Thor. While he attempts to turn GL Alan into Pro. X or Martian Manhunter with extremely rare scans of Alan using TP and hypnotism, on fodder human goons from a bygone era. From over 70 plus years ago beginning with Alan’s original appearances in comics not published by DC. lol Judge please look at those scans, it took great concentration for Alan to compel lowly henchman to tell the truth. On top of everything else it is not battlefield effective to say the least, or in character for Alan to use in a fight and not an investigation.

Also Beatboks uses two accidental kills from Alan and one that may or may not have been, to prove what exactly? Cause I have no clue lol. Is he attempting to turn Alan into some Punisher style murdering vigilante? The same Alan who helped and protected his long time arch rival Solomon Grundy from Etrigan. And this was after Grundy threaten his wife and destroyed his lantern battery, resulting in his home being blowed up. If Alan was bloodlusted it still wouldn’t help him here anyways, but he certainly isn’t. For instance its not like Thor has ever fought and beaten powerful enemies who wanted to kill him, oh wait you mean like what happens all the time in Thor comics.

By the way in those ancient scans, Alan was out-reacted and knocked out by a fodder goon with a rifle, and one with club. He also got tied up to a chair, and was unable to break free from rope. So thanks for them Beatboks, after all they are the scans that you chose to present here.
https://imgur.com/VpWJ8zh
https://imgur.com/Zwik7G5

Besides, Beatboks did all that tomfoolery only to just shoot energy beams at me with his first attack. Lol

When the bell rings he will then hit Thor with an assault like that of the entire japanese Imperial forces and the nuclear explosion of Nagasaki

And those are the scans of the assault, which wasn’t real by the way. Also notice how “murderer” Alan was so distraught at the damage he thought he had done. That he almost committed suicide. It would be completely out of character for him to try this level of assault as his first attack, without his opponent having harm others in a deadly way. But Judges please allow this tactic to go on as unopposed by me. So Beatboks first attack against me will be massive energy blasts, I’m good with that.

Meaning Thor is certainly without question in character by using mjolnir to absorb energy directed at him. My OP is filled with such instances, and below is quite possibly the best such instance against Glory. Glory was the physical embodiment of an entire pantheon of dark gods, and contained within it over ten thousand entities and the worlds they were worshipped on. So Glory blasted Thor with the totality of all its power and mjolnir absorbed it all. Not only that, but also rechanneled it and returned fire into a blast that defeated Glory. Yeah /BZ, Alan is not surviving that and comparatively the nuclear explosion of Nagasaki is like one drop of water in all the oceans of the world combined.

https://i.imgur.com/FzQvxuB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/twDBxII.jpg

Anyways Beatboks has such a terrible misunderstanding of the rules, even though Damborgson made it plain.

Originally posted by Damborgson
And let me make this clear, these characters may be fighting within character but still at their maximum potential and fighting to win.

Just no out of character actions. Like Darksaint said once, Superman may have the ability to bite someone's head off but he probably wont. Substantiate your claims with clear evidence, etc.

And so we are under the VS rules which state basic knowledge of opponents and full capacity.

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal.

This means Thor will know that Alan is powered by energy. So Thor understands he isn’t fighting a brick like Hercules or Ego’s humanoid cannon fodder army. But just like with Electro, the Presence, etc, when Thor realizes he is fighting an energy being he does go for a mjolnir energy drain early on. Plus mjolnir can sense the true nature of an opponent’s power and reveal that to Thor. Like against Juggernaut once Thor learned that his power was magical in origin, he immediately changed tactics by using mjolnir to create a sphere negating all magical energy. Interesting, I know another character in this very BZ that is also powered by magic, evil chaos magic to be precise, decisions, decisions. Here Thor already knows before the match start that his foe is energy powered, so no he will not fight like a brick. And nothing in the rules state that Thor must fight like a retard, so Alan can have a chance. Thor said it best Beatboks, “Hast thou not heard that knowledge is power?! And, this particular knowledge doth blaze the path to thy defeat!”

https://i.imgur.com/bV1sP1f.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XTjm3AU.jpg

Thor indestructible shield can sustain itself while mjolnir is gone, and long after he has stopped paying attention to it. So if needed mjolnir can go on the hunt to capture the green flame, but Thor will still be shielded.
https://imgur.com/mhcIkyr
https://imgur.com/6qr6tMW
https://i.imgur.com/xH3S1m3.jpg

Alan’s shields and constructs are routinely broken by good ole brute force. Something Thor has plenty of.

A blinded Etrigan breaks Alan’s shield.
https://imgur.com/KnEzOgX

Solomon Grundy shatters Alan’s shield.
https://imgur.com/gisRpVw

Just Solomon Grundy breaking Alan’s construct causes him feedback, and Superman has to come in for the save.
https://imgur.com/yxYPGpA

Compare that to Mjolnir resisting the power of Annihilus “invincible” cosmic control rod. And Mjolnir forces the energies of the cosmic control rod back upon Annihilus, causing massive feedback and painfully stunning him. Alan would suffer a great deal of painful feedback from Thor destroying his constructs with powerful blows, and mjolnir breaking his concentration by forcing his green flame back upon him in a devastating manner.
https://i.imgur.com/jef73j4.jpg

Alan’s constructs doesn’t come close to stopping Black Adam (not WW3). Black Adam just continues to power through and 1-shot Alan, while also making quick work of the JSA.
https://imgur.com/a/WdI1L2E

Alan gets a free sucker shot on Black Adam while he is restraining Powergirl. Which doesn’t even hinder Black Adam at all, as he continued to press his attack.
https://imgur.com/I0g6KI1

Thor is certainly capable of just smashing through them with or without mjolnir. Here he is smashing through the armor of the Celestial Exitar, enough to create a hole. His blow rocked the entire planet and nearby mountaintops were reduced to rumble. Alan’s constructs are not standing up to Thor’s planetary striking power.
https://imgur.com/bTwju3W
https://imgur.com/6dRomna

Here, Warrior Madness Thor hits Beta Ray Bill so hard that a planet is destroyed. This is crazy considering that Thor didn’t hit the planet, he hit Beta Ray Bill who was on the ground. Alan’s shields and constructs have been destroyed by far less physical force.
https://imgur.com/ME6Lcr7

Thor doesn’t have to hold back here, or pull his punches in any way.
https://i.imgur.com/VnGs374.jpg

Hooray, Alan has travel speed feats just like about every other high herald. Means next to nothing when Mjolnir can reach double and triple the speed of light.
https://imgur.com/0Rv3MGm

And move much faster than light.
https://imgur.com/OOXCF0y

Also, Alan has combat speed showings that are even worse than Thor. Here he gets blitzed by a flying turkey aka a Feitheran jobber.
https://imgur.com/kN3Wcuj

I see your brainwash Wolverine fight against a holding back Thor, and raise you an insane and dying Vandal Savage with a brain tumor. He pummels Alan and koes him.
https://imgur.com/a/zYqjfQq

Attempting to equate Alan with having nanosecond reaction time as his average is overstating it a bit much. Wouldn’t you agree Judges?
https://imgur.com/CmKGqUE
https://imgur.com/a7ssdDc

I mean even Slodinson has reacted within micro-seconds.
https://i.imgur.com/VL4H4XS.jpg

As previously shown Alan is no match for true speedsters. Here’s one more, an one-shot ko from a speeding Black Adam.
https://imgur.com/J9qcQo4
https://imgur.com/8FsAzSJ

Finally when Solomon Grundy destroyed Alan’s lantern, the green flame power didn’t go into anything or anyone even remotely capable of manipulating/controlling it. As seen in Beatboks own scans it went into an inanimate object a vehicle, an unevolved animal a squirrel, and a young girl a toddler still playing with dolls for goodness sake. Any attempt to equate that with somehow being able to take energy back from Mjolnir is beyond ridiculous. Heralds, gods, skyfathers have been drained by mjolnir and unable to will their power back to them, but Alan drawing in his power back from a hatchback shows that he can. Lol child please. Below the Ultra-humanite was able to drain Alan’s green flame and power his entire city. The JSA had to save him as he was completely powerless on his own.

https://imgur.com/a/NAWkNYo

Sorry for the delay, been a little snowed under this week.
So I've read Mutant's first two posts and rather than hold things up will address them and cover whatever he had in the third in my closer.

Well pretty much what I expected.
Everything hinging on an energy drain that Thor simply doesn't do out of the gate, and NEEDS to.

in character

There appears to be some question that Alan doesn't kill when I clearly showed he does.
Apparently Mutant can't tell the difference between killing a single adversary and killing an entire city of Civilians. Of course Alan judged himself badly when he thought he had killed MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS. doesn't change the fact that in the what of battle tat was exactly what he did. before he even processed it without realising they were all Brainwave mental constructs and not real people he killed every member of the Japanese military and the entire civilian population of a Japanese city.
Here shows his willingness to kill even more.
https://imgur.com/0sPPIU2
here Alan talks about all the times he's tried to kill Grundy.

While he attempts to turn GL Alan into Pro. X or Martian Manhunter with extremely rare scans of Alan using TP and hypnotism, on fodder human goons from a bygone era.

lol Judge please look at those scans, it took great concentration for Alan to compel lowly henchman to tell the truth.

From a time when he was inexperienced in the use of his power. In All Star Squadron which was set a year and a half later he was able to wipe the minds of every JSAer and All Star who fought Utra's war on America of all memories of the Infinity Inc who travelled back in time to help them so that the JSAers would not prevent their own children from being born by the knowledge.

not to mention the fact that he has mind controlled Dr Fate, Telepathically matched Brain Wave and Hector Hammond and while disembodied without any green flame power TP overpower Krona

I'll look for and post scans in closer.

Energy manipulation/ Absorption

I have to laugh however at the irony

The funniest (or most ironic) thing about Beatbok’s post is his laughable accusation of energy draining being out of character for Thor......................

after all they are the scans that you chose to present here.

so let's look at the scans Mutant presented here.

Thor while fighting alongside a team mate Hercules stands by and watches an energy blast strike and immobilise his team mate that he had the power to absorb but never did. He THEN goes on to a long two panel monologue before actually doing anything about it.

Thor attaches Presence with lightning, strikes the ground with Mjilnor and then monologues on for a page and a half before attempting to drain The presence.

every scan presented by Mutant of him absorbing energy is an example of him being slow to go to that power. I am not saying he wont do so, just that in character it's not his go to move.

You see True Believers being in character under forum rules doesn't mean a character wont use seldom used powers. I never said it did. In fact recent amendments to the rules pretty much state that a character wont forget a power that he needs to use to win/survive. what I said was

Thor fights like a warrior, using brawn not brain and only using the esoteric abilities of his mighty hammer once he has been categorically proven his muscles wont win the day.

Mutant's own scans confirm that, he attacked Presence with a hammer strike first.

Speaking of which we are supposed to be impressed by the power of Presence because he could BFR Hulk in Defenders 56. Yet in that very same issue a member of the defenders not known for energy manipulation could tank that energy and disperse it not once but twice.
https://imgur.com/kawMSgJ
https://imgur.com/w3IxELY
https://imgur.com/5sKJLbP

so yeah being able to handle that level of energy is great proof that one can handle the level of energy that can break Classic Fate's shields and shield from what his shields couldn't

He shows Vandal Savage leeching Green Flame energy but fails to show that Alan was able to control that energy even when leeched.
https://imgur.com/632mtgu
despite having none of the starheart left himself he was still able to control it
In fact that is a common and very repetitive theme in Alan's life.
https://imgur.com/wgqoEyR
https://imgur.com/Yq3lKso
Even from his GL days when he needed a ring he could still control the energy even when the ring was taken from him.
[bCombat Speed[[/b]
The reason Normal humans could tag him in his classic tales was because back then he was a normal human wearing a magic ring. He hadn't spent decades internalising it's power and changing to magic energy itself. Mutant himself has posted the scans that prove the change now.

Re the Jay Garrick scans from JSA 62, mutant fails to mention that Alan wasn't present when Dr Midnite who could see the aura around Jay confirmed he was possessed by Spirit king and was an enemy. Instead he was consoling Hal Jordan/Spectre trying to get him into the game. He had no reason to expect an attack from Jay.

It's getting late. I'll read mutant's last post and try and get my closer in over the weekend

Beatboks Closer:

beatboks wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 09:36 AM:
I had to laugh at the attempted low ball Mutant tried of Allan's combat speed.
Instead of low balling it actually speaks volumes to the chasm between them.

Mutant would have you believe that Thanagarian hawkmen and Vandal Savage are slower than Logan or some of Thor's other low combat speed reactions. when it couldn't be further from the truth.

first true believers let's look at Thanagarian's travel speed

https://imgur.com/jWVfIZc
the Hawks fly from a distance so far away that the buildings look as big as them to on top of those buildings in the time ti takes them to finish a sentence. I Mutant's scan they were much closer and attacking from behind AND there were hundreds of them filling the sky.

https://imgur.com/AjOYfyY
https://imgur.com/IXv3eln
Here they fly from quite a distance outside the city to into a room within in the space of HG finishing a thought.
https://imgur.com/0ubHKkL
https://imgur.com/Bjn6w15
And again. That is from 3 consecutive issues in the first post COIE series of Hawkman

then we have Vandal Savage. OMG did Mutant make a HUGE mistake trying to use that as some low combat speed feat.

Here is Vandal Savage vs Wally West.
For context readers this is Wally from EARLY post Crisis when he was only a low sonic level speedster.
https://imgur.com/QRJkCkM
Flash Vol 2 issue 1
https://imgur.com/4TEQX3f
https://imgur.com/7xndvwU
issue 2
https://imgur.com/sa5qje5
Issue 14

Pre COIE he was even better with feats like these
https://imgur.com/dWbuKsq
https://imgur.com/SPEc3Ob

Though like many high level characters he got reduces by Crisis.

Vandal has enhanced speed that is considerably greater than that of Wolverine. He also amps his stats by killing and devouring the blood of others. He further amps his stats by devouring the blood of won of his blood like

Added to which in the fight he had in JSA Classified that Mutant posted he was even further amped
first he devoured one of his children, and NOT just a decendant but a direct child (one of the strongest amps he can get)
https://imgur.com/a/oqQfKC9
Then Vandal had injected adrenaline straight into his brain prior to the battle to further enhance his reactions as well as donning a piece of armour to enhance his strength (you'll notice it's the same armour worn by Vandal in Mutant's scan I trust)
https://imgur.com/a/6S1gZVK
https://imgur.com/a/hvhzsH8
So Mutant trying to infer that Savage was weak because of a tumor was nothing more than blatant misleading. It also shows he was well aware of the context.

did we just forget readers that it was Vandal Savage that created the drugs velocity 9 and 10 that give super speed??

By Contrast true Believers Thor cannot tag Daredevil
https://imgur.com/kUXiu1q
A no name Skrull
https://imgur.com/giP9qkE
dodge falling rocks
https://imgur.com/NWQ8fUT
etc etc etc
https://imgur.com/ESoVd52
https://imgur.com/vWjtYbQ

Doubtless we'll see some more lowballing in the closer and I'm sure as he has proven himself an unreliable source there will be context to these that invalidates them

In travel speed of course they are even both can traverse light years in moments. The thing is Alan only has to think to do Thor even when he uses Mjilnor uses muscles first. Every scan we've seen and in 90% of cases of him using Mjilnor to energy manipulate he raises or throws the might Uru hammer.

Don't get me wrong true believers I'm not saying for a minute than Alan reacts in nano seconds. I haven't shown that. I have shown him reacting to the SLOWER of the DC Speedsters and his getting tagged by someone who can fight with speedsters on that level or fly vast distances in seconds doesn't discount that.

As for the Mental attacks by Alan
https://imgur.com/Cjpfb4P
Here a disembodied Alan can TP communicate with Hal Jordan
https://imgur.com/uOPOEHB
Here we have Inf Inc reference that Alan made all the JSAers and All Star Squadron members forget about the Inf Inc kids from their time travel adventure so as to prevent a time paradox
https://imgur.com/a/U53fyJE
Here Alan Mentally Controls Dr Fate and Obsidian. Mutant would have you believe that this is not a power level he normally has but I'll addredd that lie soon
https://imgur.com/a/jwkFScy
Control's Cyclone Mentally
https://imgur.com/a/RLk2eHZ
Takes mental control of Miss Martian on JLA Satelite from the moon

Alan has always had the full power of the starheart since he absorbed it way back in GL Corps quarterly 7
https://imgur.com/p79Lhcw
https://imgur.com/xPgXoaf
he held back believing he had to be carful not to let it loose and that belief almost made that happen more than once.
https://imgur.com/dSkIN3H
He learnt however in the last arc of JSA that he could control it
https://imgur.com/lp1dzB5
https://imgur.com/iDeRHXv
https://imgur.com/OGSkuSa
this makes all the feats of Blackest Night available to him. So all the mental possession and control of Miss Martian, Cyclone, Dr Fate, and Obsidian

Yes readers In character that isn't a move that Alan would use out of the gate, which was precisely why I didn't. However in line with the amended forum rules he wont forget a power that can give him the win.

Based on showings bot high and low Alan has the superior combat speed that can no longer be in doubt.

True believers I ask you to look at what Mutant has offered us.

1. Thor will absorb Alan's energy. the problem is that aside from Mordru he hasn't shown a single feat where that has occurred and Alan still hasn't been in control. Thor has no energy manip feats even close to the high end of Mordru. The guy absorbed power from an amped Shazam in his own place of power and defeated him. he absorbed power from several lords or order. he absorbed half the magic in the universe in the 30th century. he also absorbed half the power of an entity that was the living embodiment of all time and space
https://imgur.com/a/16yS5XL
We don't grant a no limits fallacy. So all the statements by Mutant that Mjilnor has no limit not withstanding he simply doesn't have any feats near the one character who was actually able to achieve what he's trying to.

Never mind the fact that Mordru didn't "absorb the energy" he reached in and pulled the entire starheart out of him in one go.

He says that Thor will use winds to weaken Alan's will. How exactly do these winds get through Alan's shields?? When Mordru did it Alan didn't have one up like he does as this battle starts.

For that matter how do any of these attacks get through force fields that held up when CLASSIC Fate's didn't

he provided low showing for speed that had context and were easily shown to be what they are.

he had feats of Alan being absorbed that context showed he was actually still in control of the power, OR were some by someone with feats leagues above the Thunder god in energy manipulation.

quite frankly all his claims have proven to be misleading in relation to Alan, can we truly trust what he shows then about Thor??

So confident is Mutant about his failed energy manipulation attack that he has provided no defence against any of my assaults and I have made three different types of attack. Despite that fact that ALL his attacks completely ignore the defences I reacted. Not ONE of the scans he has shown of Alan being energy drained was done when Alan had a defensive shield up. While I don't doubt that Thor will only be minorly affected by my opening salvo with his shields up the Attacks of Alan's Thor that took out a being that one shotted Thunderbolt will do some damage and once they have Thor will fall to the mind whammy powers that Alan definitely has and by this time under forum in character rules would use.

Supermutant Closer:

Visual representation of the Green Flame being snuffed out.

By the way, Thor is more than capable of beating Alan even without energy drain. As seen previously Solomon Grundy, Black Adam, and Vandal Savage all has koed him with just punches and physical attacks. But how can a being of pure energy be susceptible to physical harm, you may wonder? Since Alan desires for his energy to take biological form, he can be damaged as such. So Alan can be hurt severely physically to the point of being paralyzed, and unable to even heal himself. Because it takes every ounce of concentration for him to keep the Starheart in check. And Thor is attacking him on all fronts by absorbing his energy, breaking his concentration with a cosmic storm, and physically beating him senseless.

It was Scythe (basically a brick character) who broke Alan’s neck in one-shot, paralyzing him instantly.
https://i.imgur.com/V277YBw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PhXTrME.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OEuI8sF.jpg

Just to hammer the point home, here are more instances of Grundy beating the hell out of Alan throughout the years. So even if Thor had to fight like a dumb brick, he would just smash through Alan’s constructs, tank damage, and knock him out. Grundy has done exactly that plenty of times.
https://imgur.com/a/BWtzCEi

Thor has even caused harm to Galactus with a mjolnir throw. Alan and his constructs will be smashed to pieces from such a throw.
https://imgur.com/2vclm46

And Thor has even managed to damage the Phoenix Force entity with such a throw. Alan would not survive such a throw, pure energy being or not.
https://imgur.com/LZ4pJua
https://imgur.com/W8hZWo0

Thor is resistance to TP, P5 Emma Frost found that out the hard way.
https://imgur.com/ABUVFN7

So Beatboks first attack is just to blast Thor with energy, again thanks. See Blastaar’s energy blasts absorbed by mjolnir in combat. And on another occasion mjolnir scatters the force of his blasts to the four winds.
https://imgur.com/FrlNLJ9
https://imgur.com/pGltw2D

Mjolnir creates a power sapping vortex against Firelord.
https://imgur.com/kcAPD8w

Loki’s magical blasts absorbed by mjolnir.
https://i.imgur.com/f4GNYOE.jpg

Leir’s lightning bolt in mid flight absorbed by mjolnir.
https://i.imgur.com/i2cPdRW.jpg

Hyperion’s atomic vision absorbed by mjolnir in combat.
https://imgur.com/uRnrQQC

Silver Surfer’s power cosmic absorbed by mjolnir, quite frequently too if I may add.
https://imgur.com/htFG5hi

Hela’s bolts of death absorbed by mjolnir. Now this is what I call a pattern.
https://imgur.com/F3aYGVs

Beatboks wrote

Apparently Mutant can't tell the difference between killing a single adversary and killing an entire city of Civilians.

Except your own scan shows Alan with deep regrets from accidentally killing his former roommate in college.
https://imgur.com/KALrUzc
https://imgur.com/6vkGuyV

This is silly anyways and irrelevant. It doesn’t make a different if Alan is bloodlusted or not, because his first attack is still just a city destroying energy blast. Even without mjolnir Thor took that type of blast from Kang just fine. Of course he was distraught over the loss of life, but he was perfectly fine. Even without absorbing the blast, Thor will not be hindered by it. Plus Beatboks has yet to show how he will get pass my shields.
https://imgur.com/a/oStNnBz

Beatboks wrote

Thor attaches Presence with lightning, strikes the ground with Mjilnor and then monologues on for a page and a half before attempting to drain The presence.

This is flat out wrong. Go back and look at the scans, Thor attacks the Presence’s mutated army with lightning, and knocks them down by striking the ground. Then Thor’s first attack against the Presence directly is to drain him of his energy. Similarly he drained Electro immediately, and used power nullification on Juggernaut immediately once he found out the nature of Juggy’s power. Thor does use different tactics other than punches and kicks, once he has knowledge of his opponents. And he has common knowledge of Alan’s power here.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Gjfq8mR

Like I said before this is just a terrible matchup for Alan. Just look at all the evidence presented here for mjolnir being able to absorb/manipulate energy from opponents, without them being able to control it back.
Silver Surfer numerous times, including an amp once
Firelord
Loki
Kang twice
Electro
Blastaar twice
Annihilus
Thanosi
Pluto
The Wrecking Crew
Wrecker, with amp
X-Ray
Presence
Perrikus
Magneto
Glory
Megatak
Hyperion
Leir
Hela
Even some of the Phoenix Force accidentally

Not to mention cosmic forces of unlimited energies as previously shown, and a galaxy destroying null bomb.
https://imgur.com/a/WzruVd6

Even more impressive than all that, Thor used 2 mjolnirs to absorb the power of a bomb meant to kill all the gods that ever existed or would exist. Then Thor used that incredible power against his opponent Gorr the god-butcher. Plus of course there are many other instances, but I have to draw the line somewhere and finish this BZ lol.
https://imgur.com/a/s78ihKy

So Judges how many instances so far have Beatboks shown of mjolnir being unable to absorb energy? Or unable to keep the absorbed energy for whatever purpose Thor wishes? That’s right nil, nada, nought, and zero times.

Beatboks first attack is a city destroying beam attack, followed by a Thor construct, and then a mental attack that is supposed to weaken Thor’s resolve to fight. So far, Beatboks has not even showed one instance of a beam attack hurting Thor or blunt force attack from something like a construct, or a mental assault damaging Thor. But I have a ridiculous amount of evidence proving how Thor has already performed every detail in my plan, and how Alan has been defeated by such. For instance we have 4 showing of the green flame being absorbed, by Ultra-Humanite, Vandal Savage, Mordru, and Jade. Yes, Jade was even able to absorb energy directly from the full starheart entity.
https://imgur.com/a/KotGbVW

In conclusion my obvious plan of energy draining was simple, efficient, and effective. It has been proven that Thor will attack with energy draining via mjolnir as a first attack. When he has common knowledge of his opponent being an energy entity like he does here. Plus Beatboks first attack is to shoot energy at Thor, whose proven response is to absorb that energy via mjolnir. The bottom line is that Alan is getting eaten by mjolnir. And even if he wasn’t Thor would just eventually beat him into a pulp like Grundy, Black Adam, and others have. Mjolnir counters the green flame perfectly.
RIP ALAN SCOTT

DarkSaint85 wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 03:16 PM:
Interesting. This is the first fight I have seen where an appeal to the rules - specifically on character - has been made.

Would Thor do an energy drain? Would Alan use TP/mind control?

Really, after reading the scans/arguments, and yes, applying some of my own knowledge - I believe it is more likely that Thor would energy drain than Alan would use TP. Some of beatboks' scans were....for example, his best scan for TP control - that of Fate and Obsidian - specifically says it was the Starheart, NOT Alan (IT'S telling us etc). It also would have been nice to see the Hector Hammond and Krona scans...

That Jade scan in Super's closer, though, is NOT fighting against Alan's will. Tsk tsk, naughty naughty for adding that in! Again, that's the Starheart she's fighting against (it even says 'Alan Scott is gone'😉!

By the by, in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't Alan's main attack, so OK.

Finally, LOTS of scaling being used by beatboks, lol. His speed is scaled off other speedsters, his main attack is scaled off a guy who is scaled off the 5D imp (which is...I mean, still hella impressive, but not realy as impressive as before) added onto his TP...

Whereas all MutantThor did was energy drain, which, granted, we do not see very often - but how often is it that Thor is fighting an opponent powered solely by a mystical energy?

In short: Supermutant wins this, and that is taking their characters into account.

Supermutant vs Beatboks ruling

I normally go into detail as of why I choose one debater over the other but I think this once the situation was rather straightforward as the discussion went over as you'd expect in a Thor vs Green Lantern match. Honestly this is just though as nails for the energy manipulator, Thor has some of the best absorption feats out there bar non, all in that while totally in character (by the simple reason energy absorption is a defensive move and héroes can go crazy unlike as it happens in offense). I'm willing to entertain the idea of Thor not absorbing energy off the bat… But Beatboks started blasting energy at him at full power, almost forcing Thor into the defensive position he doesn't want to be in. Supermutant also shot down rather quickly the idea that speed was an effective defensive tool against Mjolnir and it at least muddles a bit the advantages Beatboks does have.

So yeah, the openers and the sheer difficulty of the MU broke the debate for me pretty early. I think Supermutant made the right choice by attacking Beatboks claims and pointing out the recklessness of his initial assault. It'd be a thought battle but I'd give Thor a decisive edge here.

Vote for Supermutant

Congrats SM, best of luck in the final (if there is one)

Pretty much how I expected this to end before a post was made 👍👍

Can't say I envy you for debating from that position XD

Originally posted by Bentley
Can't say I envy you for debating from that position XD

I enjoy tourneys more from an underdog possition. I find it boring otherwise.

I always pick my characters on that basis. Makes it nore fun to come up with an angle.

Honestly all mutant had to do for the win was point out 95% of the evidence I offered was invalid (which I expected).

Drafting allowed me to choose a green Lantern and I chose Alan. BUT that meant all Sentinel (from a time Alan was more than a GL) feats were not available to me. As pre crisis is no longer canon (some of it has been referrenced but not much) it meant that only about 4 or 5 of my scans should have been acceptable.

I rep Kang so I know nothing about debating from an underdog position

Originally posted by beatboks
Congrats SM, best of luck in the final (if there is one)

Pretty much how I expected this to end before a post was made 👍👍

thanks, I will certainly be the underdog in the next round.