Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
@jlThe feat Mxy did here was him being amped, WHICH IS PART of the discussion
I'm not sure how's that comparable
The thread isn't "Mxy vs Molecule Man"
It's "which comparison is better", and Molecule Man's is better because he wasn't amped when he did that
READ
It also depends on if Owen's feat was a representation only.
What's more impressive, a roided up amped Tyson beating Evander Holyfield, or me beating him in a videogame?
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
@jlThe feat Mxy did here was him being amped, WHICH IS PART of the discussion
I'm not sure how's that comparable
The thread isn't "Mxy vs Molecule Man"
It's "which comparison is better", and Molecule Man's is better because he wasn't amped when he did that
READ
What part don’t you understand
The OP of thread asked which feat is better. He didn’t asked why X or Y feat are better. If I asked you which feat was better, Superman KOing WF or Thing KOing Hulk. I’m not asking you why one feat was achievable. Im just asking which is better
There is no need to put layers of depth in a very simple question.
You are trying to make a discussion for no reason
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Mxy did a one time feat. It never happened again, and it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it was comedic, the writer blatantly said this. It's also not consistent with his general portrayal. Hence outlierHe gets beaten by less. I go by the average, I don't go by one time big feats, by that logic Spidey is planetary since he beat Firelord that one time
And how many multiversal feats does Owen have under his belt again?
You do know Mxy is by nature a comedic character right? It’s even made more clear when Mxy interacted with the Looney Toons for god sakes.
I love how Mxy destroying the Omniverse is not consistent, but Owen showing the multiverse in a box is.
Mxy has never been beaten when he tries, unless you count Prime. Anytime Mxy loses, there’s a specific reasons why. Hell, most of his lost to Clark is because he allows them to happen.
While where on the subject, how many times has Owen lose again?
Originally posted by MrMind
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661843&pagenumber=3it's been argued way too many times and this is just one of the thread at this point no one has the energy to repeat themselves
it's better if you look for those threads rather than just asking for handout
Oh...so no proof? Got it
God Alberto is an idiot.
Anyway, the QUESTION here is which FEAT is better. At the very least the Owen scene is AMBIGUOUS. That entire comic was one giant metaphor, so why in the hell would we take the multiverse in a box thing literally, when the context of the issue heavily suggests the opposite?
On the other hand, the Mxy scene is NOT ambiguous. That WAS the ACTUAL multiverse. Unquestionably.
Again- one of those showings is an ACTUAL feat. The other more than likely isn't. Hence Mxy's FEAT is better because we know for sure that it's the REAL multiverse.
Originally posted by -K-M-
Well it’s highly unlikely the MM scene is meant to be valid. When it first came out I took it literal, but seeing MM’s showings and statements since they have put him more universal in power.So I do believe it was meant as a metaphor but I could be wrong
Probably wrong, tbh 👆
Yeah...
In hindsight, I definitely think that the "multiverse in a box" scene was intended to be a primarily metaphorical, visual representation of the Marvel multiverse -- not an actual multiverse that Owen randomly put in a shoebox.
Owen was simplifying Schrodinger's thought experiment to Lifebringer, which revolves around the principal of quantum possibilities -- hence his initial 'cat in the box' analogy(look it up, it's an actual thing.)
That being said, the takeaway of the thought experiment is ultimately: "Whatever you may think you know, you don't really know what's in the box until you open it up and look inside" -- and that's what Owen was conveying to Lifebringer there with his visual representation of the multiverse. It was his way of explaining that much of what used to be in the previous creation, still was.
I mean, the whole issue was full of metaphors. It also started and ended with the myth of Sisyphus and the impossible task, for example:
https://i.imgur.com/W3e6B4U.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kvjrnrj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8QA8K1I.jpg
With that in mind, Owen begins explaining the human thought experiment to Lifebringer, using Schrodinger's 'cat in a box' paradox as an analogy. However, he then shifts their discussion to the current state of the multiverse using the same basic analogy: that everything isn't necessarily as it seems -- there could be anything inside the box('box' being a metaphor for the new/unsolidified Marvel multiverse that was in a state of flux at the time.)
And like I said above: the entire scene was packed with metaphors. That was Owen's way of explaining the current state of the multiverse to Lifebringer, without being overly explicit:
The 'multiverse in a box' seemed to have been intended as a purely visual aid that Owen used to help Lifebringer see the bigger picture. All context considered, we are really never led to believe that he placed an actual/full-scale multiverse inside a shoebox for the lulz, just to randomly show it off like that... Imo, it's akin to the visual representation of a universe that Franklin whipped-up for Galactus here:
________________
As for Owen himself: he was definitely intended to be quite powerful under Ewing -- above Lifebringer, for sure... But also keep in mind that Marvel's entire cosmology was brand new(and extremely unstable) during The Ultimates, and as a result, things were able to happen that wouldn't normally be possible in a fully 'solidified' cosmos. This fact was repeatedly stated/shown on panel:
https://i.imgur.com/SXTFvjw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9H5MVsE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/z41t60e.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7XIyxY7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BWEhZI1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mWgYW1S.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/utUBIOp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WILIfsh.jpg
So it's really hard to accurately gauge *any* power-levels from that series... Especially where the cosmic beings are concerned.
After all, Owen certainly didn't appear to be kept at those same, upper-echelon levels in his more recent appearances. That's for sure.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah...In hindsight, I definitely think that the "multiverse in a box" scene was intended to be a primarily metaphorical, visual representation of the Marvel multiverse -- not an actual multiverse that Owen randomly put in a shoebox.
Owen was simplifying Schrodinger's Thought Experiment to Lifebringer, which revolves around the principal of quantum possibilities -- hence his initial 'cat in the box' analogy(look it up, it's an actual thing.)
However, the takeaway of the thought experiment is ultimately: "Whatever you may think you know, you don't really know what's in the box until you open it up and look inside" -- and that's what Owen was conveying to Lifebringer there with his visual representation of the multiverse. It was his way of explaining that much of what used to be in the previous creation, still was.
Tbh, the whole issue was full of metaphors. It also started and ended with the myth of Sisyphus and the impossible task, for example.
As mentioned: Owen begins explaining the human thought experiment to Lifebringer, using Schrodinger's 'cat in a box' paradox as an analogy. However, he then shifts their discussion to the current state of the multiverse using the same basic analogy: that everything isn't necessarily as it seems -- there could be anything inside the box('box' being a metaphor for the unsolidified Marvel multiverse that was in a state of flux at the time.)
And like I said above, the entire scene was packed with different metaphors and whatnot... Which was Owen's way of explaining the current state of the multiverse to Lifebringer, without being overly explicit:
The 'multiverse in a box' thing was purely a visual aid that Owen used to help Lifebringer see the bigger picture. All context considered, we are really never led to believe that he placed an actual/full-scale multiverse inside a shoebox for the lulz, just to randomly show it off like that... Imo, it's akin to the visual representation of a universe that Franklin whipped-up for Galactus here:
________________
As for Owen himself: he was definitely intended to be quite powerful under Ewing -- vastly above Lifebringer, for sure... But also keep in mind that the entire cosmic hierarchy was in a state of flux at the time, and things were able to happen then that wouldn't normally be possible in a 'solidified' cosmology(like Order&Chaos killing LT, for example.) So it's really hard to accurately gauge power-levels from that particular series, imo.
Owen certainly didn't appear to be kept at those same upper-echelon levels in his most recent appearances, though... That's for damn sure.
👇
Originally posted by MrMind
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661843&pagenumber=3it's been argued way too many times and this is just one of the thread at this point no one has the energy to repeat themselves
it's better if you look for those threads rather than just asking for handout
Originally posted by Galan007Excellent stuff 👆
Yeah...In hindsight, I definitely think that the "multiverse in a box" scene was intended to be a primarily metaphorical, visual representation of the Marvel multiverse -- not an actual multiverse that Owen randomly put in a shoebox.
Owen was simplifying Schrodinger's thought experiment to Lifebringer, which revolves around the principal of quantum possibilities -- hence his initial 'cat in the box' analogy(look it up, it's an actual thing.)
That being said, the takeaway of the thought experiment is ultimately: "Whatever you may think you know, you don't really know what's in the box until you open it up and look inside" -- and that's what Owen was conveying to Lifebringer there with his visual representation of the multiverse. It was his way of explaining that much of what used to be in the previous creation, still was.
I mean, the whole issue was full of metaphors. It also started and ended with the myth of Sisyphus and the impossible task, for example:
https://i.imgur.com/W3e6B4U.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/kvjrnrj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8QA8K1I.jpgWith that in mind, Owen begins explaining the human thought experiment to Lifebringer, using Schrodinger's 'cat in a box' paradox as an analogy. However, he then shifts their discussion to the current state of the multiverse using the same basic analogy: that everything isn't necessarily as it seems -- there could be anything inside the box('box' being a metaphor for the new/unsolidified Marvel multiverse that was in a state of flux at the time.)
And like I said above: the entire scene was packed with metaphors. That was Owen's way of explaining the current state of the multiverse to Lifebringer, without being overly explicit:
The 'multiverse in a box' seemed to have been intended as a purely visual aid that Owen used to help Lifebringer see the bigger picture. All context considered, we are really never led to believe that he placed an actual/full-scale multiverse inside a shoebox for the lulz, just to randomly show it off like that... Imo, it's akin to the visual representation of a universe that Franklin whipped-up for Galactus here:
________________
As for Owen himself: he was definitely intended to be quite powerful under Ewing -- above Lifebringer, for sure... But also keep in mind that Marvel's entire cosmology was brand new(and extremely unstable) during The Ultimates, and as a result, things were able to happen that wouldn't normally be possible in a fully 'solidified' cosmos. This fact was repeatedly stated/shown on panel:
https://i.imgur.com/SXTFvjw.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/9H5MVsE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/z41t60e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/7XIyxY7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BWEhZI1.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/mWgYW1S.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/utUBIOp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WILIfsh.jpgSo it's really hard to accurately gauge *any* power-levels from that series... Especially where the cosmic beings are concerned.
After all, Owen certainly didn't appear to be kept at those same, upper-echelon levels in his more recent appearances. That's for sure.
Need to bookmark this stuff for future use because you KNOW the same debate is gonna pop up again. :rolleyesL
