Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I’d need to see proof that Phoenix around that time was “storm” level. That’s ridiculous
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm serious. Phoenix at that point was Storm level in power. Cosmic spider man didn't show that much power level either.
Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS 1 w/ 1 blast. That robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at the time.
Cosmic Spidey beat the Tri-Sentinel. That Sentinel was considered such a threat that Spidey was made Cap U in order to counter it.
The ONLY "Superman" type of character that was CONFIRMED to have broken a PIECE of Primary Adamantium using brute strength is a Full Confidence Gladiator from the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy alternate future timeline. Even then, he did that w/ VERY HIGH DIFFICULTY and most likely lost a finger or two when he did so. It's how 1 of Wolverine's claws ended up in a Shi'ar Empire Museum.
Not even the combo of both Logan's Admantium laced claws and Cap's Nigh-Indestructible shield were able to even SCRATCH TESS 1 after that robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium.
This is from Solo Avengers Vol.1 #11. A mercenary was using a (Primary) Admanatium garrote on Herc. Remember, Herc himself has INSANE durability feats as well as INSANE strength feats.:
Net page. Even w/ all his strength, Herc was NOT able to keep himself from almost getting beheaded by that (Primary) Adamantium garrote. Remember, that garrote was NOWHERE NEAR as sharp as Logan's adamantium laced claws which are laced w/ the SAME metal, but MORE than was used to make that garrote.
since Herc is on par w/ Thor in Raw Strength. In fact, in regards to Grappling and/or Wrestling, Herc's strength is 1 or more levels > than Thor's. He's even nearly choked out Thor via a grappling hold. Thor had to summon lightning to break the hold.:
This is from the Official Stats for Cap U from the mid-80s to early 90s. Notice that Cap U has the Power Creation ability at such a high level that it's 1 level BELOW that of Universal level (which is rated at CL1000 for gods and/or Cosmic Entities). He can use that ability to give himself virtually ANY superpower and/or COMBO of superpowers. For example, Cosmic Spidey's base strength level while he was Cap U was in the 500 ton range. He can combine (what's called stacking) his Hyper-Strength w/ his other powers to amp his Raw Strength to levels WAAAAAY > than base.
This is from Cosmic Spideys Official Stats from the Webs Sourcebook. The level of power of his Kinetic Bolt ability is sufficient to shatter Secondary Adamantium w/ up to Medium Difficulty. TESS-1 was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at least 1 YEAR BEFORE (in a Captain America Vol.1 Annual) Cosmic Spidey shattered him. Thus, when Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS-1, he was COMBINING (aka "stacking"😉 his powers in such a way that it was sufficient to shatter Primary Adamantium. Remember, Primary Adamantium has a durability of CL1000 level, which is 4 levels HIGHER than the durability of Secondary Adamantium. Thus, Cosmic Spidey did that feat w/ High Difficulty at most.:
The Cap U power itself can even bypass a Non-Weakened Juggy's powers. This was confirmed and/or explained in the storyline where Juggy (Cain Marko) became Cap U and years later in Fear Itself: The Worthy Vol.1 #2.
IIRC, Juggy wasn't Perm Weakened at the time a Cap U beat him. From the looks of it, a Cap U seems to be able to DISRUPT magic and/or magical powers to a certain extent. The fact that Juggy was NOT able to heal nigh-instantly from his injuries proves this.:
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The ONLY "Superman" type of character that was CONFIRMED to have broken a PIECE of Primary Adamantium using brute strength is a Full Confidence Gladiator from the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy alternate future timeline. Even then, he did that w/ VERY HIGH DIFFICULTY and most likely lost a finger or two when he did so. It's how 1 of Wolverine's claws ended up in a Shi'ar Empire Museum.
The fight took six days.
As for 616 canon, adamantium f*cked up Glads' shoulder, so the last thing he'd want to do would be grabbing those claws.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS 1 w/ 1 blast. That robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at the time.Cosmic Spidey beat the Tri-Sentinel. That Sentinel was considered such a threat that Spidey was made Cap U in order to counter it.
The ONLY "Superman" type of character that was CONFIRMED to have broken a PIECE of Primary Adamantium using brute strength is a Full Confidence Gladiator from the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy alternate future timeline. Even then, he did that w/ VERY HIGH DIFFICULTY and most likely lost a finger or two when he did so. It's how 1 of Wolverine's claws ended up in a Shi'ar Empire Museum.
Not even the combo of both Logan's Admantium laced claws and Cap's Nigh-Indestructible shield were able to even SCRATCH TESS 1 after that robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium.
This is from Solo Avengers Vol.1 #11. A mercenary was using a (Primary) Admanatium garrote on Herc. Remember, Herc himself has INSANE durability feats as well as INSANE strength feats.:
Net page. Even w/ all his strength, Herc was NOT able to keep himself from almost getting beheaded by that (Primary) Adamantium garrote. Remember, that garrote was NOWHERE NEAR as sharp as Logan's adamantium laced claws which are laced w/ the SAME metal, but MORE than was used to make that garrote.
since Herc is on par w/ Thor in Raw Strength. In fact, in regards to Grappling and/or Wrestling, Herc's strength is 1 or more levels > than Thor's. He's even nearly choked out Thor via a grappling hold. Thor had to summon lightning to break the hold.:
This is from the Official Stats for Cap U from the mid-80s to early 90s. Notice that Cap U has the Power Creation ability at such a high level that it's 1 level BELOW that of Universal level (which is rated at CL1000 for gods and/or Cosmic Entities). He can use that ability to give himself virtually ANY superpower and/or COMBO of superpowers. For example, Cosmic Spidey's base strength level while he was Cap U was in the 500 ton range. He can combine (what's called stacking) his Hyper-Strength w/ his other powers to amp his Raw Strength to levels WAAAAAY > than base.
This is from Cosmic Spideys Official Stats from the Webs Sourcebook. The level of power of his Kinetic Bolt ability is sufficient to shatter Secondary Adamantium w/ up to Medium Difficulty. TESS-1 was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at least 1 YEAR BEFORE (in a Captain America Vol.1 Annual) Cosmic Spidey shattered him. Thus, when Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS-1, he was COMBINING (aka "stacking"😉 his powers in such a way that it was sufficient to shatter Primary Adamantium. Remember, Primary Adamantium has a durability of CL1000 level, which is 4 levels HIGHER than the durability of Secondary Adamantium. Thus, Cosmic Spidey did that feat w/ High Difficulty at most.:
The Cap U power itself can even bypass a Non-Weakened Juggy's powers. This was confirmed and/or explained in the storyline where Juggy (Cain Marko) became Cap U and years later in Fear Itself: The Worthy Vol.1 #2.
IIRC, Juggy wasn't Perm Weakened at the time a Cap U beat him. From the looks of it, a Cap U seems to be able to DISRUPT magic and/or magical powers to a certain extent. The fact that Juggy was NOT able to heal nigh-instantly from his injuries proves this.:
So Magneto's shields holding up against him is PIS, you've convinced me 👆
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS 1 w/ 1 blast. That robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at the time.
Secondary Admantium.
Cosmic Spidey beat the Tri-Sentinel. That Sentinel was considered such a threat that Spidey was made Cap U in order to counter it.
The ONLY "Superman" type of character that was CONFIRMED to have broken a PIECE of Primary Adamantium using brute strength is a Full Confidence Gladiator from the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy alternate future timeline. Even then, he did that w/ VERY HIGH DIFFICULTY and most likely lost a finger or two when he did so. It's how 1 of Wolverine's claws ended up in a Shi'ar Empire Museum.
Not even the combo of both Logan's Admantium laced claws and Cap's Nigh-Indestructible shield were able to even SCRATCH TESS 1 after that robot was coated w/ Primary Adamantium.
This is from Solo Avengers Vol.1 #11. A mercenary was using a (Primary) Admanatium garrote on Herc. Remember, Herc himself has INSANE durability feats as well as INSANE strength feats.:
Net page. Even w/ all his strength, Herc was NOT able to keep himself from almost getting beheaded by that (Primary) Adamantium garrote. Remember, that garrote was NOWHERE NEAR as sharp as Logan's adamantium laced claws which are laced w/ the SAME metal, but MORE than was used to make that garrote.
Hercules was stated to be weakened there already.
since Herc is on par w/ Thor in Raw Strength. In fact, in regards to Grappling and/or Wrestling, Herc's strength is 1 or more levels > than Thor's. He's even nearly choked out Thor via a grappling hold. Thor had to summon lightning to break the hold.:
This is from the Official Stats for Cap U from the mid-80s to early 90s. Notice that Cap U has the Power Creation ability at such a high level that it's 1 level BELOW that of Universal level (which is rated at CL1000 for gods and/or Cosmic Entities). He can use that ability to give himself virtually ANY superpower and/or COMBO of superpowers. For example, Cosmic Spidey's base strength level while he was Cap U was in the 500 ton range. He can combine (what's called stacking) his Hyper-Strength w/ his other powers to amp his Raw Strength to levels WAAAAAY > than base.
This is from Cosmic Spideys Official Stats from the Webs Sourcebook. The level of power of his Kinetic Bolt ability is sufficient to shatter Secondary Adamantium w/ up to Medium Difficulty. TESS-1 was coated w/ Primary Adamantium at least 1 YEAR BEFORE (in a Captain America Vol.1 Annual) Cosmic Spidey shattered him. Thus, when Cosmic Spidey shattered TESS-1, he was COMBINING (aka "stacking"😉 his powers in such a way that it was sufficient to shatter Primary Adamantium. Remember, Primary Adamantium has a durability of CL1000 level, which is 4 levels HIGHER than the durability of Secondary Adamantium. Thus, Cosmic Spidey did that feat w/ High Difficulty at most.:
The Cap U power itself can even bypass a Non-Weakened Juggy's powers. This was confirmed and/or explained in the storyline where Juggy (Cain Marko) became Cap U and years later in Fear Itself: The Worthy Vol.1 #2.
IIRC, Juggy wasn't Perm Weakened at the time a Cap U beat him. From the looks of it, a Cap U seems to be able to DISRUPT magic and/or magical powers to a certain extent. The fact that Juggy was NOT able to heal nigh-instantly from his injuries proves this.:
Are you honestly trying to portray Magneto's shields as more durable than Admantium and Juggernaut?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Secondary Admantium.Hercules was stated to be weakened there already.
Are you honestly trying to portray Magneto's shields as more durable than Admantium and Juggernaut?
No it wasn't "secondary"
Here are the Official Stats for TESS-1 that were published in '90. Remember, the Cosmic Spidey storyline was in '89. Notice where it CLEARLY STATES that TESS-1 Adamanitum. Since the Adamantium he was coated w/ was CLEARLY STATED to be CL1000 in material strength/durability, it means that it was coated w/ Primary Adamantium.
The Engima Force is actually Multiversal in scope IIRC
This is the Enigma Force (which talks to Cap Us via the Cosmic Awareness power) SHARING KNOWLEDGE w/ Ray Coffin who is the FIRST Cap U in the 616. Remember, the Micronauts are from a DIFFERENT MULTIVERSE in the Microverse. This is from Micronauts Vol.1 #8. Thus, it's PROOF that Cap U's Cosmic Awareness Power EXTENDS to more than just the Marvel Mainstream Multiverse
this is from the Old Format for Durability of Materials for Marvel.:
Notice that Admantium (it's actually Secondary Admantium) is listed as UN level in durability. According to TESS-1's Official Stats, his level of Adamantium was CL1000 in durability. Thus, it was Primary Admantium.:
Unlike Abhi, I've actually READ the Captain America Annual where TESS-1 was coated w/ Primary Adamantium. Notice that 4 treatments of Seven Quarter-inch applications of that Adamantium were used on TESS-1 as explained in Panel 3. Thus it's WAAAAAY more durable than Secondary Adamantium.:
BTW, this is the Old Format explanation of the difference between True Adamantium (aka Primary Adamantium) and Secondary Adamantium. Notice that Secondary Adamantium has a durability 4 levels LOWER than True Adamantium. Notice that True Adamantium has CL1000 level durability. Do the OFFICIAL STATS for TESS-1 have his adamantium's durability listed as CL1000? YES.
show me the link to the edition of the OHOTMU where you got that scan from anyway lmao .
Originally posted by abhilegend
Secondary Admantium.
It has no-sold Wolverine's adamantium claws and Cap's shield.
Originally, Tess One was meant to be covered in one true adamantium. No reason to think otherwise.
It needs to be noted, however, how Marvel tried to retcon damn near every instance of adamantium getting damaged in their history into secondary adamantium. That's what makes it messy, adamantium discussions always are like that.
Anyway, the whole discussion is pointless ----- destroying physical matter is one feat, affecting forcefields is a different category. Magneto is a master energy manipulator.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No it wasn't "secondary"Here are the Official Stats for TESS-1 that were published in '90. Remember, the Cosmic Spidey storyline was in '89. Notice where it CLEARLY STATES that TESS-1 Adamanitum. Since the Adamantium he was coated w/ was CLEARLY STATED to be CL1000 in material strength/durability, it means that it was coated w/ Primary Adamantium.
Current info supersedes earlier info in comics.
The Engima Force is actually Multiversal in scope IIRC
This is the Enigma Force (which talks to Cap Us via the Cosmic Awareness power) SHARING KNOWLEDGE w/ Ray Coffin who is the FIRST Cap U in the 616. Remember, the Micronauts are from a DIFFERENT MULTIVERSE in the Microverse. This is from Micronauts Vol.1 #8. Thus, it's PROOF that Cap U's Cosmic Awareness Power EXTENDS to more than just the Marvel Mainstream Multiverse
😂
All this from a single blast from Spider-Man. Guess Atlas is multiversal now since it took Spider-Man more than that to knock him out.
Stop trolling.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
this is from the Old Format for Durability of Materials for Marvel.:
Notice that Admantium (it's actually Secondary Admantium) is listed as UN level in durability. According to TESS-1's Official Stats, his level of Adamantium was CL1000 in durability. Thus, it was Primary Admantium.:Unlike Abhi, I've actually READ the Captain America Annual where TESS-1 was coated w/ Primary Adamantium. Notice that 4 treatments of Seven Quarter-inch applications of that Adamantium were used on TESS-1 as explained in Panel 3. Thus it's WAAAAAY more durable than Secondary Adamantium.:
BTW, this is the Old Format explanation of the difference between True Adamantium (aka Primary Adamantium) and Secondary Adamantium. Notice that Secondary Adamantium has a durability 4 levels LOWER than True Adamantium. Notice that True Adamantium has CL1000 level durability. Do the OFFICIAL STATS for TESS-1 have his adamantium's durability listed as CL1000? YES.
show me the link to the edition of the OHOTMU where you got that scan from anyway lmao .
And Spider-Man's blast shattered it's joints, it didn't shatter the adamantium coating anywhere.
Shut up and stop trolling.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It has no-sold Wolverine's adamantium claws and Cap's shield.Originally, Tess One was meant to be covered in one true adamantium. No reason to think otherwise.
It needs to be noted, however, how Marvel tried to retcon damn near every instance of adamantium getting damaged in their history into secondary adamantium. That's what makes it messy, adamantium discussions always are like that.
Anyway, the whole discussion is pointless ----- destroying physical matter is one feat, affecting forcefields is a different category. Magneto is a master energy manipulator.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Even if it was, it wasn't like the blast blew a hole in the armor which would be blowing a hole in adamantium. The blast shattered the joints, nothing more.
Gotcha.
Do you have scans on hand? I admit I had no idea CU Spidey fought Tess.
Makes perfect sense, btw:
The fight ends with Cap and Logan beheading Tess.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What a bunch of nonsense. Wolverine and Cap decapitated Tess 1 because it's joints were not adamantium.And Spider-Man's blast shattered it's joints, it didn't shatter the adamantium coating anywhere.
Shut up and stop trolling.
Originally posted by darthgooberI would tend to agree.
I see jagged metal on several of the plates, doesn't look like it just blasted the joints apart...
Only thing I'd note is that just before it was blasted apart, TESS used the bridge structure(ie. generic steel) to repair itself after Spidey's initial strike:
So if TESS used steel to repair any damaged adamantium portion of itself, then it could have potentially been easier for Spidey to blow it apart. Steel <<<<<< adamantium, after all.
Just a thought. /shrug
