Originally posted by Philosophía
Hal ~/~ Sentry
Thor
SurferDepending on which Sentry shows up [the 'Mighty Avengers' or the stable one], this could be competitive, or Hal sweeps. Thor is trash and Surfer is underpowered compared to the rest.
Why do you rate Surfer so low? Especially considering he really hasn't had a low showing in a long time and, as I stated before, he's been getting subtle nods to his power in a couple books.
Originally posted by Sin I AMHe's certainly had a better time than Thor lately, but I still can't see him above. He's in his little corner of the Universe [where the focus is on him, and not on others] -- and when he interacts with the rest, it's usually just the same old [and by same old, I mean Thanos looks at least 2 tiers above him and Thor is again shown as >=]. We'll see how Surfer does against Sentry in the current event -- but I have a feeling it won't be very good.
Why do you rate Surfer so low? Especially considering he really hasn't had a low showing in a long time and, as I stated before, he's been getting subtle nods to his power in a couple books.
Originally posted by Sin I AMWhy do you rate Surfer so low? Especially considering he really hasn't had a low showing in a long time and, as I stated before, he's been getting subtle nods to his power in a couple books.
The idea that characters with better feats are the more powerful characters overall is an on-going problem with battle boards.
Here is a very simplistic, yet in my opinion very true way of dissecting this issue:
For the sake of the argument, let's say that Silver Surfer has appeared in more comics than Thor and that he has better feats than Thor. Silver Surfer certainly does have a couple of interesting space cheese feats. But the problem is, that in most of their fights Thor at the very least held his own against the Silver Surfer, or he straight up beat him. Thor beat the Silver Surfer enough time for us to believe, that he is the overall more powerful character. On top of that Silver Surfer was impressed by Mjolnirs power multiple times.
On battle boards the logic is thrown out of the window and Silver Surfer is still often regarded as the more powerful character, because he has better feats. He has done stuff Thor hasn't done. But he has lost to Thor. So shouldn't the logical conclusion be, that if Thor had been in Silver Surfers place during these feats, that he would have performed better? You know, since he established himself as the more powerful character in their fights.
That's a big issue a character like the Sentry has. Sentry has barely been in space. He doesn't have that many cheese feats. Where Sentry shines is in fights against other powerful characters. Thor never stood a chance against the Sentry. Against no Sentry, no matter which version we speak about. You could pick the most unstable Sentry up to date, the one in World War Hulk... and even that Sentry outperformed Thor. A Voided out Sentry was at the verge of killing Thor. Death Seed Sentry mirrored the combined power of over 100 heroes – of which many were Thor's close equals (Hulk, Hyperion, Blue Marvel etc.).
Silver Surfer got his ass handed to him by a less powerful version of the Molecule Man the Sentry went up against. Yet you'll continuously have people stating that the Silver Surfer has better feats than Sentry and that he is therefore more powerful. Which is ridiculous. In the Sentry you have this immortal, reality warping, Thor and Molecule Man bashing, Galactus stalemating force of nature. He may have less space cheese feats, but when it boils down to duking it out, he comes out on top. Sentry would lay a worse beating on the Silver Surfer than Thanos did it.
Surfer has been very impressive lately in his battle with Knull
Surfer has decades of some of the best feats, with his versatile powerset, he should be the most powerful marvel heralds but everytime he encounters thor he cannot get the upperhand. I sorta see this as jobbing like when he's with annihilators, in some battles he just forgot about his speed.
Sentry is honestly nothing to write home about without that Molecule Man showing and his deathseed showing.
Even in his void form he got smashed back to bob by a helicarrier.
before Siege the only wanking point was spiderman way off the base comparing himself to Galactus (completely off panel). when he was fighting World War Hulk he fully unleash, the power of supposely million exploding suns cannot even decimate New York. Yeah his best feat in standard form was fighting stand still with World War Hulk. Despite carver's wanking, WWHulk was nothing impressive, even in WWHulk most powerful stage World Breaker, he at best can smash planets. Which Surfer, Hal, Thor can all easily replicate. Hell, regular green lantern split planets on a wednesday and seal blackholes on a thursday.
in the meantime Sentry was getting punked by Jim Hammond, getting body slammed by she-hulk
having trouble lifting a helicarrier (yes that happened)
this was his norm, not outlier PIS. during those days he would accumulate 4 or 5 garbage feats and 1 good feat like fighting genis photon (the fight was very vague and off panel)
even recently a merged sentry was getting owned by fat cobra.
Originally posted by Philosophía
He's certainly had a better time than Thor lately, but I still can't see him above. He's in his little corner of the Universe [where the focus is on him, and not on others] -- and when he interacts with the rest, it's usually just the same old [and by same old, I mean Thanos looks at least 2 tiers above him and Thor is again shown as >=]. We'll see how Surfer does against Sentry in the current event -- but I have a feeling it won't be very good.
Last time Thor fought Surfer was during FI? I always took that as he was holding back. Especially after he noticed that wound. But that's classic Thor not current who with all his bluster still seems like a shade of his former self even with mjolnir reborn. And that Galactus reference shouldn't be used in message boards. It's simple hyperbole from a weak source.
Also Mrmind is correct in his assessment of for every Ares/Loki/Owen kill Sentry has more Hercules/Helicarrier/She-Hulk/Human Torch/Ultron Tony/ that time he shit his pants when he fought Hulk shenanigans to even him out. Even his death seed showing was brought down by that giant worm. Imo Thor isn't a great measuring stick anymore..he's been worfed too badly.
@enzeru...you had me then lost me. Mjolnir is impressive. It always been touted as the supreme weapon even if it's user isn't up to the task. Surfer being impressed by it isn't a low point.
It's honestly Hal's fight...I just don't like his odds against bricks
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Last time Thor fought Surfer was during FI? I always took that as he was holding back. Especially after he noticed that wound. But that's classic Thor not current who with all his bluster still seems like a shade of his former self even with mjolnir reborn. And that Galactus reference shouldn't be used in message boards. It's simple hyperbole from a weak source.
Thor was also wearing his spacesuit armor, thorbags love to ignore that it's not a part of his standard equipment.
Surfer will fight Thor again soon.
the original post has made it clear what sentry we are using
"Sentry has all his feats except void/death"
it's honestly sorta pointless to bring up Sentry's deathseed feats and void feats anyway, that's not his standard power level deathseed is an amp and void is a dark force
Just like we don't bring up Hal Jordan being parallax/spectre, Thor being Rune King Thor/King Thor in their normal fights. We use characters in their standard versions.
I of course allow merged sentry because it's his current version and it's consider his standard form now but that doesns't mean his void's feats are now completely usable. I'm sure anyone who is logical can see the reasoning.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Last time Thor fought Surfer was during FI? I always took that as he was holding back. Especially after he noticed that wound. But that's classic Thor not current who with all his bluster still seems like a shade of his former self even with mjolnir reborn. And that Galactus reference shouldn't be used in message boards. It's simple hyperbole from a weak source.Also Mrmind is correct in his assessment of for every Ares/Loki/Owen kill Sentry has more Hercules/Helicarrier/She-Hulk/Human Torch/Ultron Tony/ that time he shit his pants when he fought Hulk shenanigans to even him out. Even his death seed showing was brought down by that giant worm. Imo Thor isn't a great measuring stick anymore..he's been worfed too badly.
@enzeru...you had me then lost me. Mjolnir is impressive. It always been touted as the supreme weapon even if it's user isn't up to the task. Surfer being impressed by it isn't a low point.
It's honestly Hal's fight...I just don't like his odds against bricks
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I can see Hal Jordan being on top with Surfer coming very close,
In a one on one fight Hal can edge out Surfer or Sentry (sentry is honestly too inconsistent).
it gets iffy with Thor though, depends on how much we value Thor's showings in last 4-5 years comparing to before, if we take specific matchup into consideration
style makes fight, mjolnir is a nightmare for lanterns and energy wielders.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Honestly, I thought you wanted Sentry limited to his classic yellow "superhero bob" version.
deathseed is an amp so of course out of question
void is technically part of sentry, it's one of his multiple personality/psyche but some comics often treated void as a dark monster inside Sentry's body
I want to exclude void only because if I don't some of them will bring up molecule man, a one time outlier showing and pretend Sentry can warp reality on the norm.
MrMind, your reasoning is absolutely painful to read and even more so take seriously. It's the prime example of yet another major issue with battle boards, where some people are biased to a point, where they take the lowest showings of the character they want to lose and put them up against the highest showings of the character they want to win.
Silver Surfer has been KOed by a guy with a crowbar. Thanos has been escorted in handcuffs by the police. Superman almost died from a nuke, while protecting Wonder Woman. Is that what we reduce them to in battles?
Now surely you'll start screaming about how there was context to that Superman low showing and how he was already badly hurt by Zod and Faora...
But why do you ignore the same context for a character like the Sentry? As if the nuke-like Helicarrier is an actual threat to the Sentry. Why are you ignoring the fact that he was attacked by a legion of vastly amped heroes before being nuked by the Helicarrier? The heroes were empowered to a point, where even Captain America was doing major damage. And they still couldn't beat him. Even amped and later on bloodlusted Thor couldn't defeat him. Yet you ignore that... and you bring up She-Hulk..? Come on. She punched him from behind. He stood up unphased and threw her out of the city. If the Sentry wants She-Hulk dead, she dies. If he truly wants Thor dead, he dies. Sentry doesn't need the Void for that, someone he has defeated time and time again.
Again on topic:
1. Sentry
2. The rest
The Sentry has been an event boss time and time again, all under his own power. You can't say the same about the other three. Take Thor and he can stop Silver Surfer. Take Hulk and he can stop Thor. Take Superman and he can stop Hal Jordan.
Which one character can stop the Sentry? You needed one of the more powerful Hulks to stalemate a weakened Sentry. You needed a vastly amped Thor to inflict some damage to the Sentry. You needed the universe threatening Photon to BFR the Sentry. You needed the Molecule Man himself to briefly destroy the Sentry for few minutes. You needed Morgana Le Fay to kill the Sentry as a child to get rid of him (spoilers: he came back, because he doesn't give a crap about rules of nature). News flash: Kill Thor, Silver Surfer and Hal as babies and they're staying dead.
Which leads us to my last point and yet another major issue with battle boards:
I feel like I've made a short, yet compelling argument for the Sentry. Yet you're going to dismiss it by calling me a Sentry /Marvel wanker and rinse and repeat the lowballing of the characters you want to lose and highballing of the chatacters you want to win. It's a never-ending cycle.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, it's okay to exclude void and I understand why you did that, but current Sentry is basically "normal + void", that's why I'm a little surprised you're allowing that version.
right, I'm allowing merged because this is his current version with sentry it's a little iffy
based on the one or two showings of merged sentry, nothing suggest he's on the same level as void during the siege era, so why should we include any of void feats?
just because he merged with void do we take everything he's done as void under his own current power now? honestly I don't know, even if we include void (we're not) it's not guarantee win for him anyway.
edit: void feats aren't allowed, because enzeru would go full RW on us and bring up molecule man none stop and pretend sentry as a reality warper when he's not
The Sentry has been an event boss time and time again, all under his own power. You can't say the same about the other three.
Hal Jordan blasts through a universal level cosmic being that is Krona (who was controlling all the emotional entities), don't pretend only sentry is capable of high end outlier feats. Hal's own will power can rival that of green lantern central battery.
also since you keep bringing up void or deathseed (in your previous post)
1. Void is not in this battle, read OP please
2. even if he is, beating the avengers and trashing city sized asgard is not some ultimate achievement. they were amped by norn stones, not infinity gems, chill out.
void wanted to die, but if he's truly invincible thor shouldn't damage him.
I guess fat cobra eating void is a low showing too? any feats you don't like is a low showing huh. face it sentry is inconsistent
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
?
when Loki died the power boost from norn stones was gone
Thor smashed Void to mushy pulp under his own power (with the assist from Helicarrier of course)