"Fear not Floridians, your packages are safe!" -ThePolice

It's all over the news, so pick your outlet flavor.

Four dead after Florida police chase, shootout

Four people were reportedly killed after a police chase and subsequent shootout on a busy street in Florida on Thursday afternoon.

Following a robbery in Coral Gables, Fla., the robbers hijacked a UPS truck and kidnapped a driver, and were later pursued by police, FBI special agent George Piro told reporters.

The suspects and law enforcement exchanged fire in Miramar, Fla., and the suspects as well as the driver and a bystander were killed, Piro said.

He declined to say whether it was possible that the driver or bystander were hit by police fire/ -snip

It's believed that at least the UPS was hit by bullets fired from the police. Forensics should be able to tell.

Awful, but who initiated the gunfire? The cops or the criminals? The article doesn't say.

One would *like* to think the cops wouldn't be f*cking dumb enough to initiate gunfire given there was a hostage, but these days(and especially in Florida) you can never tell.

Other sources say the cops where fired upon first.

Originally posted by Surtur
Awful, but who initiated the gunfire? The cops or the criminals? The article doesn't say.

One would *like* to think the cops wouldn't be f*cking dumb enough to initiate gunfire given there was a hostage, but these days(and especially in Florida) you can never tell.

Good points.

Even if they were stealing nothing at all, they still kidnapped a man, at gunpoint. The police are, unfortunately, only human, and can only do so much when dealing with another human.

I'm sure if it was up to them, they'd throw up their hands and walk away, but they have their job to do for better or worse.

Originally posted by Robtard
Other sources say the cops where fired upon first.

Do you believe the cops did the wrong thing then?

Originally posted by Surtur
Do you believe the cops did the wrong thing then?

I would think engaging in a gunfire exchange when there's both a hostage and civilians around would be basic police "do not do", where the police took cover instead and waited for a better/safer opportunity to fire back. IMO, stolen packages are a better option than multiple civilian deaths.

But I wasn't there, don't know what the cops faced, hopefully their body cams were turned on, the police car was recording and there's traffic cam footage to inspect, which will tell the investigators if the police acted according to policy.

Originally posted by Surtur
Do you believe the cops did the wrong thing then?

I was reading an argument about why police chases are bad ideas: causes he suspects to flee and cause harm/violence/make decisions that endanger others in their panic.

Seems like a great policy, really.

Can we create batman-like tracker things? We just pull out a shotgun, shoot the fleeing vehicle with this device that has GPS and camera data.

Hey, drones? Maybe we could have drones doing our police chases. Less costly and they could "fly by rails" on city streets with "flight paths" just like airplanes use for autopilot.

But, yes, seems like car chases are dangerous.

Pretty sure both UPS and FedEx have tracking devices on all their trucks. So tracking wouldn't have been an issue in this instance.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was reading an argument about why police chases are bad ideas: causes he suspects to flee and cause harm/violence/make decisions that endanger others in their panic.

Seems like a great policy, really.

Can we create batman-like tracker things? We just pull out a shotgun, shoot the fleeing vehicle with this device that has GPS and camera data.

Hey, drones? Maybe we could have drones doing our police chases. Less costly and they could "fly by rails" on city streets with "flight paths" just like airplanes use for autopilot.

But, yes, seems like car chases are dangerous.

I confess I was more so referring to them returning fire once fired upon when I asked if they did the wrong thing.

As for your comments about police chases, yeah that is true and even if they didn't have a hostage they could have killed someone by getting in a car accident.

As for the tracker question, one would imagine UPS trucks already have trackers on them.

Police officers using civilian cars as shields.....

Also look at their formation as they approach the UPS vehicle. Standard training to avoid friendly fire.....except it completely ignores the civilian vehicles in the crossfire.

I understand these are high-pressure situations. Adrenaline is a ridiculous thing, but that's why you have trained leadership to remain calm.

Edit: This post from an ex-Leo explains it better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/florida/comments/e6q974/i_am_livid_that_the_officers_involved_decided_to/

That explains it better than I can.

All this for, what, less than 200k in jewelry? SMH. Two innocent people lost their lives for nothing.

Edit: I watched three different videos. One of the basic rules of firearm safety is know your target and know what is behind it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Police officers using civilian cars as shields.....

Also look at their formation as they approach the UPS vehicle. Standard training to avoid friendly fire.....except it completely ignores the civilian vehicles in the crossfire.

I understand these are high-pressure situations. Adrenaline is a ridiculous thing, but that's why you have trained leadership to remain calm.

Edit: This post from an ex-Leo explains it better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/florida/comments/e6q974/i_am_livid_that_the_officers_involved_decided_to/

That explains it better than I can.

I read there was one car where the civilian was trying to drive/maneuver away and the cop kept behind the car moving with it, making the civilian an active target. Seriously hope this isn't true.

It's like something you see an an action film. Cops having zero disregard for the collateral damage, doing whatever it takes to get the bad guy.

Almost wonder if they think paying off lawsuits is less expensive than paying for more training

19 officers unloaded on the truck and 200 rounds were fired...TWO HUNDRED.

These guys were straight up mag dumping.

Bad Boys 3 was released early I guess.

Originally posted by Surtur
Almost wonder if they think paying off lawsuits is less expensive than paying for more training

By the number of rounds used, I don't know if its a testament to their training that much more civilians weren't killed or a sign of how poor it is that they even got into that situation.

It was bumper to bumper traffic.

I'm being sarcastic.

It reminds me of the scene from Fight Club where he talks about automobile recalls and says if paying lawsuits will be cheaper than doing a recall they just won't do a recall.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
19 officers unloaded on the truck and 200 rounds were fired...TWO HUNDRED.

These guys were straight up mag dumping.

Bad Boys 3 was released early I guess.

200+ cop rounds. Yeah, pretty safe bet the UPS driver was killed by a cop and not one of the robbers just going "**** you!" before they died.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
19 officers unloaded on the truck and 200 rounds were fired...TWO HUNDRED.

These guys were straight up mag dumping.

Bad Boys 3 was released early I guess.

That would only be 10 or 11 rounds per officer, how is that mag dumping?