Originally posted by Galan007
but if he's really RotJ Palpatine-level,
Honestly not sure a single statement not backed by feats is enough to believe that tbh. Especially given the ridiculous way in which he was killed.
But yeah if he is that good with the Force, then he will be up there. But Vader and Dooku should still take him Imo. Vader for sure.
Originally posted by Galan007
Feats are always the best measuring stick, sure.That being said, I don't really see a reason to doubt Luke's word on the matter. /shrug
The only reason I can give is that yeah its supposed to be from Lukes perspective, but its still just a source book.
Like he doesnt know what happened to Vos. Why? Because we dont know yet.
That said if they repeat this Snoke = ROTJ Palps concept multiple times, then I will take it much more seriously.
It is a guidebook, but it's still it's an in-universe text that was intended to have been penned by Luke himself.
So per Luke, Snoke's power = RotJ Palpatine's... And given canon Luke's immense wealth of knowledge(not to mention that he has personally felt/sensed the power of both), I really can't think of a good reason why his word on the matter would be unreliable..?
Originally posted by Galan007
It is a guidebook, but it's still it's an in-universe text that was intended to have been penned by Luke himself.So per Luke, Snoke's power = RotJ Palpatine's... And given canon Luke's immense wealth of knowledge(not to mention that he has personally felt/sensed the power of both), I really can't think of a good reason why his word on the matter would be unreliable..?
Because a guide book can easily be contradicted in other sources. I mean heck they contradicted clear implications and even events from actual novels. So I dont think theyd hesitate twice about contradicting a guide book.
But yes Luke is a solid source. So if he says that again in a more solid source Like a comic book, then itd be pretty hard to dispute.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're absolutely right. It *can* be contradicted later on by some other source.But like I said: as of *now*, Luke's word is all we have to go by on the matter... and he is a very reputable source.
Fair enough. Ill just have to see if theres if theres someway I can reinterpret Lukes words. He never specifically mentioned TK or FL right? 😛
^ So reviewing the exact quote, it is possible Luke was comparing Snokes mastery of the dark side to Sith Lords in general and not specifically Palpatine.
Also from Lukes point of view Snoke being equally as impressive and terrifying in the dark side could be down to what hes accomplished with his dark side powers - built up the First Order and turned Kylo much in the way Palpatine turned Vader.
So there is room for different interpretations of that quote, Hence why I would need to see that statement repeated elsewhere before taking it as factual.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Especially given the ridiculous way in which he was killed.
To be fair now, RotJ Palps' death wasn't *much* better.
Sure, Sheev was focused on making Luke suffering and everything, but him getting betrayed and tossed out like garbage by a one-armed cyborg was still funny.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To be fair now, RotJ Palps' death wasn't *much* better.Sure, Sheev was focused on making Luke suffering and everything, but him getting betrayed and tossed out like garbage by a one-armed cyborg was still funny.
It was definitely much better.
Focusing on Luke and getting grabbed from behind is very different to fully focusing on reading Kylos mind whilst completely missing that Kylo is about to kill him. Thats why I find it very difficult to believe his powers are equal to OT Palpatines.
Plus Vader himself died killing Palpatine. IOW you somehow manage to take out Palps, even by surprise, youre still gonna pay a hefty price.
Originally posted by Darth ThorThe implications of the quote are clear, imo.
^ So reviewing the exact quote, it is possible Luke was comparing Snokes mastery of the dark side to Sith Lords in general and not specifically Palpatine.Also from Lukes point of view Snoke being equally as impressive and terrifying in the dark side could be down to what hes accomplished with his dark side powers - built up the First Order and turned Kylo much in the way Palpatine turned Vader.
So there is room for different interpretations of that quote, Hence why I would need to see that statement repeated elsewhere before taking it as factual.
"Unlike Emperor Palpatine before him, Snoke was not a Sith Lord, but his mastery of the dark side was equally as impressive -- and terrifying."
https://i.imgur.com/apprMCC.jpg
Luke is clearly using Palpatine's raw dark side power as a measuring stick for Snoke's. If Luke were just comparing Snoke to some random/generic Sith Lord, he would not have explicitly mentioned Palpatine in the same breath.
^ It starts with “facing a far too familiar threat”
So Palpatine May be mentioned as Snoke is basically his successor “Unlike Palpatine BEFORE him”
But the end point saying that even though he isnt a Sith, his powers are pretty much the same.
Also would need confirmation Luke was referring to combat abilities with the dark side like TK or FL given the context.
No. This bit of dialogue is actually quite simplistic, and doesn't leave much room for ambiguity at all. You're just trying to twist it for some reason.
The 'dumbed down' version of the quote would be: "Snoke's mastery of the dark side was equal to Palpatine's, even though he wasn't an actual Sith Lord." Seems like you're just trying to nitpick a clear-cut statement, simply because you dislike Snoke.
Anywho, there's no need to try and insult my intelligence with these silly assertions you're coming up with... We both know what the line implies, even if you don't want to openly admit it.
Originally posted by Galan007
No. This bit of dialogue is actually quite simplistic, and doesn't leave much room for ambiguity at all. You're just trying to twist it for some reason.The 'dumbed down' version of the quote would be: "Snoke's mastery of the dark side was equal to Palpatine's, even though he wasn't an actual Sith Lord." Seems like you're just trying to nitpick a clear-cut statement, simply because you dislike Snoke.
Anywho, there's no need to try and insult my intelligence with these silly assertions you're coming up with... We both know what the line implies, even if you don't want to openly admit it.
Insult your intelligence? Whoa... Its not like Im the first and only one to point out that interpretation. So Quit taking it as some kind of attack.
As for me twisting it for some reason, its no mystery as Ive already explained im very critical of it given Snokes on screen presence. However if it turns out that lightning blast in the Kylo Ren comic was from Snoke, then that would change things.
Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like you're just trying to nitpick a clear-cut statement, simply because you dislike Snoke.
👆
The statement is very clear on the matter. Even if Luke were only comparing Snoke to Sith Lords in general (which he isn’t,) Luke’s only frame of reference....would be Vader and Palpatine. So it”s nothing more than DT trying to worm his way out of Snoke = ROTJ Palpatine, (even though, ironically, the idea only serves to wank Palpatine all the more).
DT, I”ve watched you debate for years, but you really seem to wear your biases on your sleeve these days. Tried to destroy Quan so hard that you became him. 🙁
Since Palpatine "made" Snoke, Luke could just felt Palpatine instead, no? This whole new trylogy is a total shit for me, I'm not interested in any kind of source, so I really don't know and just asking.
Anyway, if he indeed was "made" by Palpatine and was his puppet, I doubt that he should be listed very high. His TK was rahter impressive, but so was Kylo's in the first movie. Against non-Force users or pdawans like Rey he could stomp. Rey was talented, poweful, was a great user of TK as well... but being good in using it isn't the same as being good in defending against it. And Kylo's showing against clows of Ren was terrible at the end.
