A 5%er on the rich and higher taxes

I asked on Quora why the ultra rich are associated with being friendly to higher taxes. I got the usual assortment of answers including altruism, patriotism, guilt. The most interesting answer came from one poster who claimed to be in the top five percent (He didn't say if this was nationally or globally, but fair bet he's richer then all of us put together)

He gave most of the usual responses, and then claimed that all of them have a little unadmitted fear in the back of their head about what happens when unrest reaches critical mass. He said they could easily hire armies, but that would restrict their freedom.

Restrict their freedom. I never would have considered that. Why not hire that army, or form a network of islands for rich people? Why not have "Air Force One" for rich people, so they can live out their lives in the sky? Why not build a space station or moon base?

I guess even a guilded cage is still a cage.

Originally posted by cdtm
I asked on Quora why the ultra rich are associated with being friendly to higher taxes. I got the usual assortment of answers including altruism, patriotism, guilt. The most interesting answer came from one poster who claimed to be in the top five percent (He didn't say if this was nationally or globally, but fair bet he's richer then all of us put together)

He gave most of the usual responses, and then claimed that all of them have a little unadmitted fear in the back of their head about what happens when unrest reaches critical mass. He said they could easily hire armies, but that would restrict their freedom.

Restrict their freedom. I never would have considered that. Why not hire that army, or form a network of islands for rich people? Why not have "Air Force One" for rich people, so they can live out their lives in the sky? Why not build a space station or moon base?

I guess even a guilded cage is still a cage.

I would imagine that part of it is because at the end of the day, not everything can be automated. The lower and middle classes are the ones that usually keep the lights on and the water running. Sure, there are ways around it, but I imagine it's much easier to placate the masses in some way.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I would imagine that part of it is because at the end of the day, not everything can be automated. The lower and middle classes are the ones that usually keep the lights on and the water running. Sure, there are ways around it, but I imagine it's much easier to placate the masses in some way.

That's why you let in a limited underclass. Like Knights in the old days.

They'll never be royalty, but they get to live like them.

They claim to be friendly to higher taxes, but I'd be willing to bet at least 90% of them try and pay the minimum amount of taxes they can.

Originally posted by Silent Master
They claim to be friendly to higher taxes, but I'd be willing to bet at least 90% of them try and pay the minimum amount of taxes they can.

Yeah, being better at using loopholes and outright burying it was one of the reasons given.

Originally posted by cdtm
I asked on Quora (...)

You're still not banned there? 😛

Does anyone here oppose the Fair Tax on factual grounds and not just some ignorant opposition to something new or beneficial to the rich and/or sneaky?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're still not banned there? 😛

Closer to being banned on the Labrador retriever Facebook.

"I was told biting a dog on the nose is a good way to discipline them. Any truth to that?"

Went about as well as.you'd expect.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Does anyone here oppose the Fair Tax on factual grounds and not just some ignorant opposition to something new or beneficial to the rich and/or sneaky?

Nope I love it, although if someone doesn't read the plan they'll carry on with it's a regressive tax code.

Hilariously Scandinavian countries use a VAT in addition to tremendously high taxes on middle classes (in other words not just tax the rich.) To bad bernie doesn't adopt this platform to be more like scandanavian "socialism."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Does anyone here oppose the Fair Tax on factual grounds and not just some ignorant opposition to something new or beneficial to the rich and/or sneaky?

Can you give me a brief TLDR summary of the proposal or a link to some other TLDR summary? Because I’m lazy, you see.

From what the guy is saying I seriously doubt he’s a 5%. Or at least he’s an outlier nut. Rich people don’t talk or think that way.

Edit. Hm Did some research.

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/

Seems you only need to earn around 300k to be a 5%. Not really rich-rich. Very well to-do, I guess. Still sounds like an outlier nut to me tbh.

Originally posted by BackFire
Can you give me a brief TLDR summary of the proposal or a link to some other TLDR summary? Because I’m lazy, you see.

This dude explains it simply:

YouTube video

And some people think the Fair Tax plan is bad because it would punish the poor. But the monthly prebate (basically, a form of UBI, teehee) would make the poor tax neutral or even tax negative. Some think the prebate sounds bad (hating the poor) so here is a breakdown of the prebate:

YouTube video

I should point out that Texas doesn't have income taxes - it has a tax similar to Fair Tax. And it is among the best states, economically, these last 10 years.

Texas has a regressive tax but they try to offset this with property taxes (the poor cannot own lavish property).

I think the current Fair Tax Plan needs to be updated a bit but the fact that a family of 4 basically gets a UBI of $20,000 a year greatly appeals to me. It is also very business friendly.

I saw a chart that outlined how the Fair Tax compares to the existing tax system by predicting the tax burden across income brackets. Wiki captures it (but proponents of the Fair Tax dispute this because richer will have a bigger incentive to invest and purchase):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_the_FairTax_burden#Tax_burden_impact

I think the Fair Tax needs to be updated a bit to patch some of the loopholes (like the wholesale loophole). We need tax-evasion experts to poke holes in this thing and then for the think tank to patch those holes.

Anyone who makes over 150k a year, I think, should be paying at least 17% of their income to taxes in some form. But not much more than 17%. Effective tax rates for really rich are far less than my taxes.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This dude explains it simply:

YouTube video

And some people think the Fair Tax plan is bad because it would punish the poor. But the monthly prebate (basically, a form of UBI, teehee) would make the poor tax neutral or even tax negative. Some think the prebate sounds bad (hating the poor) so here is a breakdown of the prebate:

YouTube video

Corrected the second video link to the right one. Too bad I can't edit.

As a 10% I live in a country where I pay no tax and have my savings in two tax havens.

Originally posted by cdtm
... a little unadmitted fear in the back of their head about what happens when unrest reaches critical mass. He said they could easily hire armies, but that would restrict their freedom.

It's as if there is some natural threshold -- between Haves and Have-nots -- that when crossed, triggers extreme change.

Originally posted by Mindship
I think it may be more than restricted freedom. I'm no historian, but I believe history documents multiple examples of where the '99%' -- using their power to acquire more power, often to the detriment of the '1%' -- suffered when the 1% said enough is enough and revolution ensued. The new power structure works at first, but over time, given that power corrupts, the cycle eventually repeats.

It's as if there is some natural threshold -- between Haves and Have-nots -- that when crossed, triggers extreme change.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Except in countries where the have nots have never had and they have gone from colonial rulers to tribal leaders with access to Education replacing the colonial rulers, and the country swaps from military rule to democracy and back again; with the same ruling class in charge no matter which system is in control. All bought and owned by wealthier countries and corporations they cow tow to and are complicit to the corruption, because they to are fleeing the have nots.

Originally posted by Mindship
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the 1% in these countries survive (rather than being replaced) by adapting to the unrest from the masses, by instituting a 'new and improved' control system (supposedly what the masses want), often with the aid of powerful, outside influences (those favoring the new power structure for their own ends).

Here’s my man Mr Elder dropping some truths

YouTube video