How can the US & World Punish China

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah but you'd figure democrat mayors, especially "orange man bad" types like DeBlasio, wouldn't need to have Cheetos McHitler tell them to do these things. In fact you'd think they would pride themselves on doing it precisely because trump *hadn't* said to do it. "Look at me, I acted when Trump wouldn't. Plus did you notice he is orange and also bad?".

Though of course a true authoritarian probably wouldn't be leaving it up to the states to decide how to handle this. Trump can't even dictator right *smh*

I'm going to be honest with you, while there are some important differences between Democrats and Republicans, the reason why both Republicans and Democrats acted slowly at times is because fundamentally the number one POV the parties have is one they share, and that is an allegiance to corporate interests, imo.

If that somehow coincides with saving lives or making them better for people then great, but that's often not the primary way they look at things.

Originally posted by Artol
I'm going to be honest with you, while there are some important differences between Democrats and Republicans, the reason why both Republicans and Democrats acted slowly at times is because fundamentally the number one POV the parties have is one they share, and that is an allegiance to corporate interests, imo.

If that somehow coincides with saving lives or making them better for people then great, but that's often not the primary way they look at things.

It does seem like the only key differences is who they pander to.

Oh and we have this gem:

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1246197131423211522

Originally posted by Surtur
U say they don't deserve to be punished the way others think, is this saying u feel there is a way they should be punished? If so, what way?

China won't want to lose revenue from exports, and other countries don't want to lose China as a low-cost supplier, so there's incentive for both sides to work together diplomatically. No need to antagonize the entire country with international lawsuits, indefinitely higher taxes on their imports, or full-out embargoes.

Okay so would that threat be a bluff or would you want us to actually do something if we say that and they refuse? Or if we say it and they comply only for a bit(like they did after Sars)

I still think it is misguided to believe China is particularly to blame, at the local level it does seem like they initially underestimated the problem, but once they caught on the did attempt to contain the spread, and were relatively transparent about it. Now again taking that the country has such a huge population and is a hub for outsourced work for basically the whole world, it just makes sense statistically that a lot of these kinds of pandemics will originate from there.

But the United States similar has been an originator of pandemics, and even if it has not been the originator due to its status it has been a spreader of them, and I don't think it is really reasonable to blame the US specifically for that either.

Once this pandemic is over the next pandemic will come as well, and it could come from anywhere.

I feel like if this pandemic had originated here the international community would be slamming us. Left leaning media would be blaming Trump even more than they are now.

And relatively transparent? They lied about animals being able to pass it to humans. Then the WHO repeated the lies.

And they are probably *still* lying about their numbers. And they lied and said the US military brought the virus there.

To be clear, I mostly bring up china in response to folk trying to blame trump for this. And I'd bet Broly made this thread in response to seeing people try to blame Trump. Cuz if they wanna play the blame game then hell we are gonna play the blame game.

The other more reasonable option might be to wait to play that game until after this is over. But alas...people do not seem capable of behaving reasonably when it comes to Trump.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay so would that threat be a bluff or would you want us to actually do something if we say that and they refuse? Or if we say it and they comply only for a bit(like they did after Sars)

Reduce imports from China, and increase imports from other countries with a better handle on food safety, even if it does wind up costing more. China's main food exports are rice, tea, potatoes and soybeans. Although they're a major producer of these products, they're not necessarily the largest exporters. India is the top exporter of rice, the Netherlands for potatoes, and Brazil for soybeans (followed very closely by the US). China is still the top exporter of tea, but it's a close enough race between them and Kenya, Sri Lanka, and India.

That's the importance of international pressure on China to improve food safety protocol. If it's just us, China could just say, "Yeah, ok America. Guess we'll just stop buying your soybeans (US's top export aside from meat) altogether and just import them all from Brazil instead again." If it's a good chunk of the rest of the world insisting they make the necessary changes, they'll be pressured to do so or risk their production losing value due to fewer quantities being exported.

Originally posted by Artol
I still think it is misguided to believe China is particularly to blame, at the local level it does seem like they initially underestimated the problem, but once they caught on the did attempt to contain the spread, and were relatively transparent about it. Now again taking that the country has such a huge population and is a hub for outsourced work for basically the whole world, it just makes sense statistically that a lot of these kinds of pandemics will originate from there.

But the United States similar has been an originator of pandemics, and even if it has not been the originator due to its status it has been a spreader of them, and I don't think it is really reasonable to blame the US specifically for that either.

Once this pandemic is over the next pandemic will come as well, and it could come from anywhere.

Originally posted by Surtur
To be clear, I mostly bring up china in response to folk trying to blame trump for this. And I'd bet Broly made this thread in response to seeing people try to blame Trump. Cuz if they wanna play the blame game then hell we are gonna play the blame game.

The other more reasonable option might be to wait to play that game until after this is over. But alas...people do not seem capable of behaving reasonably when it comes to Trump.

I agree with you, ultimately I am not sure that the way this blame game is playing out is beneficial, of course completely united opinion with no room for dissent is a big problem as well, but in my experience the United States discourse has completely veered in the opposite direction, and absolutely everything is solely based on a partisan lens. That is true for both Democrats and Republicans, as well as the supporters of the respective party.

Of course party politics exist in other countries, but I don't think it is so pronounced, and so detrimental to progress in any of the other OECD countries.

Originally posted by Surtur
I am curious to those who think Trump has blood on his hands: you are consistent and feel DiBlasio has the blood of some of those from NYC who have died on his hands, right?

Trump has figurative blood on his hands for continuing Obama's murder campaigns against brown people.

Not because of anything at all related to COVID-19.

Originally posted by Surtur
First case in NYC was March 1st, next day he was telling people to go out to the movies. 10 days later he was telling people to do what they normally do unless they were sick.

Now I'm not saying he is responsible for peoples deaths. However...given the sheer number of deaths we are seeing in NYC, it's hard to understand how Trump could be responsible for deaths but this democrat mayor not be.

First confirmed case was March 1st. But, likely, it had been there for 1-3 weeks.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No way to get the old account. Email is discontinued and the password is not saved. There's not anyone here that could help either, so whatever.

No, I mean, your current account "Stealth Moose" was created in 2011. That's more than old enough to not be considered a sock account, by this point.

It's like you significant other (SO) moved in, you have kids together, and your oldest child is about to finish 2nd grade but you're hesitant to call your SO your GF. Dude, you're married by this point. lol

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No--no bluff, no threat--just a diplomatic change in trade between China and an international collective concerned with health safety.

Reduce imports from China, and increase imports from other countries with a better handle on food safety, even if it does wind up costing more. China's main food exports are rice, tea, potatoes and soybeans. Although they're a major producer of these products, they're not necessarily the largest exporters. India is the top exporter of rice, the Netherlands for potatoes, and Brazil for soybeans (followed very closely by the US). China is still the top exporter of tea, but it's a close enough race between them and Kenya, Sri Lanka, and India.

That's the importance of international pressure on China to improve food safety protocol. If it's just us, China could just say, "Yeah, ok America. Guess we'll just stop buying your soybeans (US's top export aside from meat) altogether and just import them all from Brazil instead again." If it's a good chunk of the rest of the world insisting they make the necessary changes, they'll be pressured to do so or risk their production losing value due to fewer quantities being exported.

This is a great idea. But that money "impact" is not enough. It would have to extend beyond just those items.

Here's the food table on exports:

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/LTST/TradeFlow/Export/Partner/by-country/Product/16-24_FoodProd

And here's all categories of exports:

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/CHN

You'd need to hit multiple areas to actually have a significant impact on China. Look at the countries that are the biggest consumers of those exports: they'd have to be in agreement to make that work.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No--no bluff, no threat--just a diplomatic change in trade between China and an international collective concerned with health safety.

Reduce imports from China, and increase imports from other countries with a better handle on food safety, even if it does wind up costing more. China's main food exports are rice, tea, potatoes and soybeans. Although they're a major producer of these products, they're not necessarily the largest exporters. India is the top exporter of rice, the Netherlands for potatoes, and Brazil for soybeans (followed very closely by the US). China is still the top exporter of tea, but it's a close enough race between them and Kenya, Sri Lanka, and India.

That's the importance of international pressure on China to improve food safety protocol. If it's just us, China could just say, "Yeah, ok America. Guess we'll just stop buying your soybeans (US's top export aside from meat) altogether and just import them all from Brazil instead again." If it's a good chunk of the rest of the world insisting they make the necessary changes, they'll be pressured to do so or risk their production losing value due to fewer quantities being exported.

Are you even qualified to make these types of opinions? After all, You know what they say about opinions.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I mean, your current account "Stealth Moose" was created in 2011. That's more than old enough to not be considered a sock account, by this point.

It's like you significant other (SO) moved in, you have kids together, and your oldest child is about to finish 2nd grade but you're hesitant to call your SO your GF. Dude, you're married by this point. lol

This is a great idea. But that money "impact" is not enough. It would have to extend beyond just those items.

Here's the food table on exports:

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/LTST/TradeFlow/Export/Partner/by-country/Product/16-24_FoodProd

And here's all categories of exports:

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/CHN

You'd need to hit multiple areas to actually have a significant impact on China. Look at the countries that are the biggest consumers of those exports: they'd have to be in agreement to make that work.

Oh I agree it would definitely have to extend to more than just food imports, and from more than just a handful of countries, to send a significant enough message to China. Food exports were just the immediate thing that came to mind.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Are you even qualified to make these types of opinions? After all, You know what they say about opinions.

Mods, please close the thread.

😂👆

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You're right. None of us are qualified trade experts or international relations experts.

Mods, please close the thread.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
😂👆

haermm

My sweetheart's undergrad was in economics. I'll ask her. BRB.

Originally posted by dadudemon
haermm

My sweetheart's undergrad was in economics. I'll ask her. BRB.

You definitely should, that makes her more qualified than both of you baboons to talk trade🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
haermm

My sweetheart's undergrad was in economics. I'll ask her. BRB.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You definitely should, that makes her more qualified than both of you baboons to talk trade🙂

She said, "There's no fairness in economics. I can't wash my face."

haermm