Despero(V&V) VERSUS The Avengers

Originally posted by MrMind
let's see some scans boy

😂 How do you lowball marvel and ask me common knowledge questions about it, I can tell you don't read alot on it

In just the 1 main Marvel Universe, there is an entire race of Watchers. Not just Uatu, Uana the Watcher, Aron the Watcher, Ecce the Watcher and Billions more. Billions of Celestials.

Marvel has The Creators

The Makers:

The Infinites:

Races upon Races, each numbering in the billions or more, each with the power to destroy universes or multiverses.. So when someone says their putting a verse or character against "All of Marvel", there including far more than just the main, named characters

Marvel has characters and stories that operate on every scale, from street level, humanistic stories, to multiple tiers of cosmic beings. DC has it too, just not as advanced or expansive as Marvels.

WHICH is a FACT, not up for dispute, if you have an issue with it go talk to dc writers about it

cool any imps or monitors or angels would one shot entire races of celestials or infinities, like I said 50 people on dc earth can unmake all reality, any one of these 50 people would unmake marvel omniverse so far.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 How do you lowball marvel and ask me common knowledge questions about it, I can tell you don't read alot on it

In just the 1 main Marvel Universe, there is an entire race of Watchers. Not just Uatu, Uana the Watcher, Aron the Watcher, Ecce the Watcher and Billions more. Billions of Celestials.

Marvel has The Creators

The Makers:

The Infinites:

Races upon Races, each numbering in the billions or more, each with the power to destroy universes or multiverses.. So when someone says their putting a verse or character against "All of Marvel", there including far more than just the main, named characters

Marvel has characters and stories that operate on every scale, from street level, humanistic stories, to multiple tiers of cosmic beings. DC has it too, just not as advanced or expansive as Marvels.

WHICH is a FACT, not up for dispute, if you have an issue with it go talk to dc writers about it

still waiting for scan that prove

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
there's billions of races on marvel that can unmake reality, i'm not sure why this is supposed to impress me.

billions of races, meaning billions of different races, each capable of unmaking reality, so far you named 3 or 4, where are the other 3 billions?

Originally posted by MrMind
hulk on dc would be solomun grundy status 😆

and yes WW would oneshot the hulk like he did shaggyman too
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11112/111120741/5922392-4284316136-WWPG5.png

Keep thinking Hulk is Grundy level. Anything Marvel, your comments hold no weight.

That same Shaggy was mud stomping the JLA. Nice showing for Wondy.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 How do you lowball marvel and ask me common knowledge questions about it, I can tell you don't read alot on it

In just the 1 main Marvel Universe, there is an entire race of Watchers. Not just Uatu, Uana the Watcher, Aron the Watcher, Ecce the Watcher and Billions more. Billions of Celestials.

Marvel has The Creators

The Makers:

The Infinites:

Races upon Races, each numbering in the billions or more, each with the power to destroy universes or multiverses.. So when someone says their putting a verse or character against "All of Marvel", there including far more than just the main, named characters

Marvel has characters and stories that operate on every scale, from street level, humanistic stories, to multiple tiers of cosmic beings. DC has it too, just not as advanced or expansive as Marvels.

WHICH is a FACT, not up for dispute, if you have an issue with it go talk to dc writers about it

That's it? DC has a much wider DC cosmology, with more uber races, demons, gods, etc.... Back in the day (forgot which message board), two posters were trying to see which company had more uber gods/cosmic beings/abstracts. Elrahprime (who did the DC side) had a deeper list, and he was only half way in completing his list.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Try his appearance in Aquaman. There are multiple shaggymen in the DCU. The one who faced off against Aquaman and Atlantis was created by Ivo.

Seen his fight against Aquaman. Hulk have far better fts.

BTW, if anyone can find the list, post it. I can't find it anymore.

Originally posted by carver9
Seen his fight against Aquaman. Hulk have far better fts.

It took BFR to defeat him. He was getting stronger, adapting to all the attacks. Hulk can't put down SM or the General.

Found it:

1) Beings/Forces who are beyond any creation (Beings that even Hypertime does apply to them)
The Presence/The Overseers

The Source/Carnivore with Presence's power/Gyges and Garamas/Ultimate Light/Ultimate Darkness (Ultimate Darkness and Ultimate Light are the balance of the Presence)/The Voice/The Unnameable One

The Decreator/Lucifer Morningstar/Archangel Michael/Elaine with Michael's power and Demiurgic Energy/The Adjudicator/Spectre/Eclipso (Wrath of God)

Archangel Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, Michael (Chaos Bringer), Saraquel, Raguel

2) Hypertime abstract Beings/Forces (beings that could affect the whole Hypertimeline)
Hyperman (God of Hypertime Jonathan Kent)

World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite (May not be the Central Hypertimeline or 'in-continuity' Mxyzptlk or Bat-Mite but still existed from a different hypertimeline)

3) Multiversal abstract beings/forces (beings that could affect the Multiverse)
Una, the Worm of Heaven and Hell/Ea/Mallo Keeper of the Cosmic Balance/The Sword of Destiny/The Word/The Void/Demiurgic Energy/The Witching Hour /Anti-Monitor (full version)/Entropy or Krona at full potential/The Great Light (no relations to the Ultimate Darkness or Ultimate Light)/The Darkness (could be the Anti-Monitor's shadow servants merged as one. But that's debatable)/Godwave/The Ultimator or 10th dimensional beings/The Abyss

4) Universal abstract beings/fundamental forces who embody a universe (Beings that could affect a single universe)
Kismet or Eternity (same being , but the name Pre-Crisis Superwoman called her universe in Superman Family Arc)/Death/Infinity (The Timestream)/Oblivion (Nothingness)/Angor/Entropy (End of Time after everything dies)/Maltusian Gods/The Moraiei/Three Witches/Other forms the Witching Hour manifest itself throughout the universe/Destiny/Dream I/Dream II/Darksome/Yk'Kphat/the Antechamber of Souls/The Great Tree/The Abyss (Pre-Boot Dial H For Hero Villain)/5th dimensional imp king or queen (Queen Gzntplzk or King Brpxz)/Omega Attractor/Epoch with Omega Attractor/The Oracle Entity/Maaldor/Ningal/The Aleph/Order/Chaos/Willow and her husband as one (one with the universe)/OA/Quantum Field/Speed Force/Parallax Entity/Azarath/Astro-Force/Omega Effect/Alpha Energy/Zero Hour Parallax (full power)/Ion/Sunbust energy/The Shadowlands/Joker with Maaldor Power/Mr. Mxyzptlk/Bat-Mite/Lkz/Ykz/The Mxy Twins (Mxyzptlk split into 2)/A typical 5th dimensional imp (Zrffians, Thunderbolts, and Mite-Imps) (average showing)/Emperor Joker/Cosmic Lotus/Nebula Man

The Concentrator/The Primal Atom/The Sun-Stone/Genesis Box/Warlogog/Warlogog wielder/Damage (Big Bang)/Anti-Matter Cannon/The Master Blaster

5) Abstract Concepts/physical body and manifestations of the Presence
Destruction/The Decay ancient force/Anomaly (also known as Fires of Creation itself)/Desire/Despair/Dellirium/The Union/Dark Lords of the Ultra-Realm (War, Chaos, Madness, Hate, Death, Greed and Rage), Light Lords of the Ultra-Realm (Peace, Grace, Enlightenment, Love, Order, Life and Bliss)/Rama Kushna/Meshta/Wally the God Boy/Godhead

6) Physical body and manifestations of abstract concepts
Black Racer/Black Flash/Nekron I/The Ecrus/Anti-Life Entity/Anyone wielding the ALE/Eon (full power)/Decay II/Tiamat

7) Godlike Metahumans/1st class Metaphysicals, Semi-Abstract, God-Like beings, race, Demons, Angels/Metaphysicals that could affect the universe
Hamilton Benedict/Gemini Entity/Alexander Luthor/Gemworld Dimension (currently Amethyst's spirit)/Jonathan Kent/Progenitor (Element Lad reaching his full potential and becoming God of a galaxy)/Progenitor and Omnipagues (merged as one being)/

The Promethian Giants/The Quantum Mechanics/The Anti-Matter Man (Pre-Boot)

Ramiel/Duma/Sandalphon/Archangel Amendaniel/Lord of Order (Shatru, St'ann, Terataya, Ynar, J'akk, Nabu the Wise, Patagones, Amethyst)/Lord of Chaos (Child, Gorrum, Hytuurnus, m'Shulla, Shivering Jemmy, The Weaver, T'Charr,The Shallow Brigade and the Laughing Dancers,The five original Lords of Chaos,Typhon, Vandaemon, Zanadu)/The Unity/Shattered God/SHAZAM's Elder Gods (Marzosh, Arel, Ribalvei, Voldar, Elbiam, Lumium)/S'ivaa The Destroyer/The Shadow Elements race/The Three Demons - Rath, Ghast, Abnegazar/Clockwerx/Trigon (in his dimension)/Krona/Bedlam/Dominus/Jakeem Thunder/Johnny Thunder/30th Century or present Mordru/The Great Darkness Saga Darkseid/Doctor Manhattan/Satan/Spear of Destiny/Azmodus (like the Spectre varies)/Shaitan/Shathan/Ultimate Man (fully evolved)/Ganthet possessed by Parallax/Superman Prime/Wonder Woman channeling the Godwave/Starbreaker/Yuga Khan/Imperiex/Brainiac 13/Fenris the Devourer/Omniphagues/Overmaster/Epoch/Vyronis/Preacherverse God/King of Tears/The Devil/Corinthian/The First of the Fallen/Saint of Killer/Angel of Death/Time Trapper I (Rokk Krinn)/Time Trapper II (Lori Morning?)/Glorith/Infinite Man/Timeless Ones/The Time Beast/Kulak/Eclipso (depowered and became Heart of Darkness)/Abraxis/Dr. Destiny/The Agents/Dark Angel/Zatanna and Adam (Godhead)/Agent If and the Realtor/The Carnivore (pre-God)/Cykroth/The Evil One/Maggedon/Alien Ator of the Timeless Place/Primordial Old Gods of Chaos/The Lords of Light/Nether-World Gods/Satan (Phantom Stranger issue pre-boot)/Willie Wisher/Father Time/Captain Skull/Cocoon of the Undying Ones

8) 1st Class Metahumans, supernatural, and aliens/2nd class Metaphysicals,Semi-Abstract, and God-Like beings/race/Demons/Angels
The Unimaginable/Unimaginable's race/Candlemaker/Egregores/TDHD MadGod of Sector 3600/Millinneum Giants/Cosmic Gamblers/OWner of the Earth/The A/Rift/Neron/The Second of the Fallen/The Third of the Fallen/The Endless One/Old Gods- Arzaz, Baaldur, Lokee, The Nameless One, Sirius, Wotan/A typical 5th dimensional imp (varies) (low showings)/The I/Luck Lords/X'Hal/Agamemno/The Aurakles/The One/The Fiend with Five Faces/Erishad's baby/Outer Gods (Shub-Niggurath, Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Nyarlathotep)/Elder Gods and the Old Ones (Cthulhu,M'Nagalah, k'zum'uggarth, Daemoniacus, Kolkothak, Koth-Shugoth, The Undying Ones and the N'Garai)/Netherworld Creatures/Andromeda and M'onel given powers by the Anomaly/The ID/The Miracle Machine/Parallax (Post Zero Hour)/Jericho (vessel of Azarath)/Zauriel (angel form)/Asmodel/Pax Dei host/Thrones/Saraphim/other angel host that Gabriel or Sandalphon are in charge of/Earth-Born Angels- Supergirl (angelic powers), Comet, and Blithe (if they actually use their powers), Twilight with Supergirl's Earth Born Angel Power (still has it I believe)/Jesse Custer/Genesis/The Light Entity/Leviathan (Phantom Stranger pre-boot)/Asmodeus/Oblivion II/Secret (full potential)

Sun Eater/Mr. Nebula/Cannibal Planet/Aquarius/Other Living Stars/Council of the Living Stars/Solaris/Morbiac the Zombie Star/The Vampire Sun/Mogo/Empire of Tears/Wonderworld inhabitors- Adam One, The Mote, and other Wonderworlders/Manhunter of Mars/Parliaments of Planets/Earth Elemental Swamp Thing/The Ancient Ones/Maya/Gaea

Monitor/Anti-Monitor (before he absorbed the multiverse)/Scarabus

9) Skyfather levels
Highfather Izaya/Darkseid/Takion/Stayne/a typical Guardians of the Univese/Ganthet/Phantom Stranger/Zeus/Odin or any skyfathers/SHAZAM wizard/The Controllers/The Zamarons/Guardians Council/Qwardians (creator of the Anti-Green Lantern Corps)/Ares/Harmonia/Deimos/Eris/Phobos/Thunderhead/Helia/Odin/Osiris/Mother Herrae and other Primitives/Osirect/Anubis/Hades/Cronus/Harrier/Disdain/Titan/Slaughter/Arch/Oblivion/other skyfathers and death gods/Superman 1 million/Superman Dynasty/Koth/The Seven/Wonder Woman (Goddess)/Animal Avatars Gods (Hawkgod, Snakegods, Beargods, Bullgods, etc.)/Rao and other Kryptonian gods/Gog/Evil Avatar Raven/Trigon's Daughter Raven/Lord Satanis/Trigon (on Earth)/Infernal One/The Redeemer/Mister Miracle (ruling New Genesis)/Stone Giant's race/Parliament of Flames/Parliament of Stones/Parliament of Waves/Parliament of Trees/Parliament of Vibes/Blaze/Lord Satanus/The Three Faces of Evil- Terror, Sin, and Wickedness/Validus (Pre-Boot)/The Powerstone or anyone wielding the Powerstone/Metron/Red Jack/Rhea Jones (reaching her full potential before killing Red Jack)/Shadowy Mr. Evans/Saint of Killer/Dark Gods/Lois Lane (Goddess of Integrity)/Dreamslayer/Spirit King/Ultimate Man/X'ult/Evolvo harnessing the space and time Anomaly/Willow/Willow's chils/Snapper Carr (genetic potential)/Human race (genetic potential)/Jesse Custer/Genesis/The Ancient Ones/Xenon/Disciple/H'ronmeer/C'eridyall/The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse - Death, War, Faminine, and Plague (manifestations of The Adjudator's will)

10) Time-travelers/2nd class metahumans, supernatural, and aliens
Extant/Waverider and Linear Man/Hourman III (without the worlogog)/Gabriel Walker/Doomsday with GL Ring/Decay III/Brimstone/The Annihilator/Eon (depowered)/Godfrey Gaius (true form)/Black Zero/Gayle Marsh (Psi)/Lex Luthor (portion of Darkseid's power)/Penguin (portion of Darkseid's power)/Joker (portion of Darkseid's power)/Brainiac (potion of Darkseid's power)/Agogg/Pre-Crisis Superman/Pre-Crisis Supergirl/Pre-Crisis Kryptonians/Pre-Crisis Daxamites/Mon-El/Pre-Crisis Superboy/Pre-Crisis Wonderwoman/Pre-Crisis Andromeda/Bloodthirst (could be higher, not much is known about him except that he could change his appearance and he beat the crap out of Superman)/Monarch/Dev-Em/OWAW Doomsday/Doomsday War Doomsday/Goldstar/Triumph given powers by Lkz/Pre-Crisis Maxima/OWAW Superman (merged with Strange Visitor)/Pre-Crisis Ultraboy/Superwoman (Kristen Wells)/Hunter and Prey Doomsday/Element Lad/Element Man/Starfinger/Star Boy/Kid Quantum II/Kid Pyscho/Graviton Man/Gravity Lord (both could be higher)/Superboy Robot (pre-crisis)/Atmos/Brother Blood/Dr. Light (full potential, enraged, and very crazy)/Dr. Light II/Superboy of the 843rd Century/Superboy 1 million

11) Herald-Class Level/3rd class angels, metahuman, supernautrals, and demons/Hulk-Level
Helspont/Lord Defile/Saviour/Regis and Blue Aliens/Preacherverse Devil/Dark Lantern/Dark Flash/Fernus/Burning Martians/Vartox/Amazo/The OMAC Androids/BION/Composite Superman/Garok/Dr. Fate/Dr. Fate II/Dr. Fate III/Dr. Fate IV/Tim Hunter/Tim Hunter II (Tim Hunter's evil counterpart from another universe)/Anti-Fate (high portrayal in the Fates and TM)/Kestrel I/Krestrel II/Composite Man/Deadman (varies)/Green Lantern Priest/Creator-2/Zatanna/Jennifer Morgan/Janissary with Book of Eternity/Despero/Zoom 2/Shaggy Man/The General/The Elementals (Swamp Thing, Red Tornado, Firestorm, Naiad)/Orion (highest showing)/Brainiac 2.5/Doomsday Rex/Sun-dipped Superman

Martian Manhunter/Malefic/Hyperclan- A-Mortal, Armek, Fluxus, Primad, Protex, Tronix, Zenturion and Zum/Green, Pale, Red and White Martians (at their best)/Alan Scott/Kyle Rayner/Raker/Hal Jordan/Kilowog/John Stewart/Guy Gardner/typical Green Lantern (highest showing)/Wally West (highest showing or using Speed Force)/Sinestro/Effigy/Nero/Major Force/Captain Atom (highest showing)/Firestorm I and Firestorm II (highest showing)/Celeste Rockfish/Cobalt Blue/Kilg%re/Obsidian/Dr. Polaris

Superman/Mr. Majestic (could be ranked higher)/M'onel/The Martians (average to high)/Kryptonians/Daxamites/Andromeda/Captain Marvel/Lightray/Black Adam/Eradicator/Martian Mahunter/Alan Scott/Kyle Rayner/Raker/Hal Jordan/Kilowog/John Stewart/Guy Gardner/typical Green Lantern (average)/Ultraman/Orion (average showing)/Captain Atom (average showing)/Doomsday/Firestorm I/Firestorm II (average to high)/Breach/Max Faraday/The Void/Providence/Manchester Black/Power Ring/Massacre/High-Tech/Anti-Green Lanterns/Malefic/Green Martians/Rhea Jones/Preus/Cyborg Superman/Mongul/Zatanna (average showing)/Auron/Radiant/Despero/Thor/Captain Comet/Starboy/Starman I/Starman II/Starman III/Starman IV/Starman V/Starman VI/Starman VII/Starman VIII/Starman 1,000,000/Lord Malvolio/Jade/Evil Star/General Zod/Ignition/Kancer/Warrior/Lex Luthor (Armor)/Manchester Black/Triumph/Strata/The Crusade/The Union/Golgoth/Superman Robots/Superman Androids/Brainiac/Pulsar Stargrave/Ultivac/Manhunters/Darkstars/Arion/Dr. Occult/Echantress/Steel (Aegis Entropy Armor)/Ultraboy/Warlord of Ys/Anti-Matter Man/Antithesis/Brainwave II/Ferro Lad/Cosmic Boy (pre-Crisis)/Gaius (in coma)/Lobo/Etrigan

Wonder Woman/Circe/Maxima (high showing)/Samaritan/Apollo/Icon/The Martians (low showings)/the Green Lanterns (average to low showings)/Captain Atom (average to low showings)/Maul/Solomon Grundy/Uncle Sam/Death Rite (Draaga)/Hercules/Mantis/Ultra Boy/Captain Marvel Jr./Mary Marvel (high showing on the Marvel sidekicks)/Geoforce (high showing)/Faora/Arclight/Son of Vulcan/Bizarro/Thor/Wanjina/Red Tornado/
Body Defenses of the Owner of the Earth/Kalibak/Grayven/Superwoman/Zealot/Validus (Post Zero-Hour)/Steve Dayton/Solaar/The Olympian/Ferro/Cosmic Boy (post-Crisis)/Scanner/White Drawf/Drone/4D/The Key/Imperiex Probes/Heralds of the Owner of the Earth/Terraformer of the Owner of the Earth /Jenny Quantum

Adam Strange/Animal Avatars (Hawkman,Hawkwoman,Lord Viper, avatars of Bears, Barracudas, Snakes, etc.)

12) Lower Class metahumans
Powergirl (high showing)/Hippolyta/Barda/OMAC (Buddle Blank)/Mary Marvel and Captain Marvel Jr. (standard)/Maxima/Fury II/Loose Cannon/Blockbuster I/Blockbuster II/Touch 'n Go/Jack-o-Lantern

Flash II (high showing)/Flash III(post terminal velocity)

Power Girl (standard to low showings)/Mary Marvel/Cap Marvel Junior (standard to low showing on the Marvel)/Donna Troy/Artemis & Hyppolita (highest showings)/Superboy (high showings)/Aquaman (with full on TP and magic hand)

Flash I/Flash II (standard)/Flash III (pre terminal velocity)/Dr. Zoom/Impulse/Johnny Quick/Captain Speed/Kid Flash (former Impulse)/Reverse Flash/Savitar/Speed Demon/Max Mercury/Johnny Quick/Red and Blue Trinity/Christina Alexandrova/Jesse Quick/Barry West/Kid Flash 2/Impulse/23rd Century Flash/Sela Allen/John Fox/speed Metal/Blaine Allen/Jace Allen/Tornado Twins/Hyperguard/Inertia/XS/Flash Kryad/JOhn Fox/Impulse II/Superboy (standard)/Wonder Girl/Aquaman (hook/mechanical hand + full on TP)/Steel/Natasha Irons/Metamorpho/Starman(low showing)/Thunder/Grace/Kid Impala

The list hasn't been updated in several years to a decade. There are a lot of beings not added to it.

edit: prep you ninja'd me

this list was 15 years ago,now it has at least tripled

😂 😂 😂 THATS it??

laughable

since albertroll can't backup his claims, concession accepted

I guess

Originally posted by MrMind

there are trillions of races in dc that can oneshots toaa and give beyonder wedgies

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 😂 😂 THATS it??

laughable

nope it's only 1/3rd of it, but still 50 times more powerful than marvel

also you are not running away from this, what are the other 3 billions different races in marvel?

Originally posted by MrMind
cool any imps or monitors or angels would one shot entire races of celestials or infinities, like I said 50 people on dc earth can unmake all reality, any one of these 50 people would unmake marvel omniverse so far.

still waiting for scan that prove

billions of races, meaning billions of different races, each capable of unmaking reality, so far you named 3 or 4, where are the other 3 billions?

Originally posted by MrMind
cool any imps or monitors or angels would one shot entire races of celestials or infinities, like I said 50 people on dc earth can unmake all reality, any one of these 50 people would unmake marvel omniverse so far.

still waiting for scan that prove

billions of races, meaning billions of different races, each capable of unmaking reality, so far you named 3 or 4, where are the other 3 billions?

The monitor was beaten by a bunch of lanterns?
Angels are universal besides Mikey and Lucy 😂 😂

READ a marvel comic, you keep asking me questions and pretending like you read Marvel, that's actually hilarious

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The monitor was beaten by a bunch of lanterns?
Angels are universal besides Mikey and Lucy 😂 😂

READ a marvel comic, you keep asking me questions and pretending like you read Marvel, that's actually hilarious

billions of races, meaning billions of different races, so far you named 3 or 4, where are the other 3 billions?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The monitor was beaten by a bunch of lanterns?
Angels are universal besides Mikey and Lucy 😂 😂

READ a marvel comic, you keep asking me questions and pretending like you read Marvel, that's actually hilarious

celestial gets owned by sue storm
beyonders get owned by avengers

Are we playing the lowball game now?

cosmic cubes.... obviously....

I want to read the comic where Polaris bloodbended the Hulk.
I heard it's canon.

I also want to read Street Fighter comics which showcase their impressive feats.

Both these cases are common Marvel knowledge that I alas do not possess.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
cosmic cubes.... obviously....

oh you got nothing? expected,

guess I'm done feeding the troll while plowing dat ass, back to ignore you go