Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Name?Bats has had plenty of great fights against Slade.
Superman and Martial Manhunter couldn't even track Batman's movements.
Bats has good fights against Slade via planning or sucker punch's. His best head to head fights were probably under Priest's pen, and it took every dirty trick in the book and special laser power gauntlets to level the playing field.
Even in his own Bat book, he's has to drug him and set up traps.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not what the OP asks for.It asks for most impressive combat speed feats against formidable opponents.
So going up against and surviving against one of the top speedsters in DC, who humiliates other speedsters, is the most impressive. In fact, you dismissing it as PIS showcases how impressive it is - because even in the realm of comic book fights, it's so out there that you want to ignore it.
And i'm arguing that hitting Zoom while also being shown as way too slow to hit Zoom in the same fight is not a combat speed feat.
You could just as easily argue Zoom was having a typical speedster mental disorder (called CIS for everyone else.)
How fast were batman's punches moving? How fast was Zoom's reaction times during the moments he dodged vs the moments he got hit? We don't know.
Therefore better to determine combat speed feats against intimate objects, like bullets and lazers. Or in situations where one of the opponent's speed is explicitly stated.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
And i'm arguing that hitting Zoom while also being shown as way too slow to hit Zoom in the same fight is not a combat speed feat.You could just as easily argue Zoom was having a typical speedster mental disorder (called CIS for everyone else.)
How fast were batman's punches moving? How fast was Zoom's reaction times during the moments he dodged vs the moments he got hit? We don't know.
Therefore better to determine combat speed feats against intimate objects, like bullets and lazers. Or in situations where one of the opponent's speed is explicitly stated.
Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).
It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.
Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.
It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.
Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.
It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.
That entire fight was stupidity
during the Batman/Flash Button crossover, Batman stabs Thawne in the foot while he was standing still, claimed that Speedsters cant phase their feet while standing still or else they will fall through the floor, yet months before a building exploded while Barry was phasing, standing completely still and let the entire blast go through him, including his feet or else his feet would have been incinerated.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.
Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.
It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.
Yes it is exactly CIS because every speedster gets hit by things in comics that they have no business being hit by. We talk about this all the time about why its turned off in a forum fight. "X character would literally have to be retarded to get hit by this attack that he is Y multiples faster than."
Just as we would argue that we would have to be retarded to be hit by some deadly slug speed attack in real life that we see coming.
We know Zoom isnt selectively retarded in a forum fight. But he can be in a comic. Afterall he is only as smart as his writer.
No, it wasnt a boxer vs boxer situation. Ali had a maybe 20% reaction time advantage over opponents he clowned and never phased through attacks casually.
Unless you are arguing that Batman held back his speed on purpose for some blows and sped them up by many thousands or millions of times for others. If he was fast enough to hit Zoom consistently (just like one boxer vs another) there would have been no need for him to stall for time (which he was doing because he knew he couldn't beat Zoom). If his reaction time was actually within spitting distance of Zoom's (the same way two boxers are) then he would have simply beaten Zoom since he had comparable reflexes combined with a massive skill advantage. Afterall Zoom is no fighter whereas Batmam is best in class at fighting.
So the setup was Zoom was out to kill Batman. Batman knew he couldn't beat Zoom because he is a super fast meta human. So he tries to stall for time...by showing that he is fast enough to hit Zoom. Who therefore must not be all that fast or that much of a threat that stalling for time is required, seeing as Batman is a way better fighter and in the same realm of speed.
The fight tried to show off Zoom's massive speed advantage while showing off batman's resourcefulness and skill
and juxtaposed the two poorly. But poor writing is nothing new in comics. Writers dont care about accurate portrayals they care about giving words to move along colorful pictures.
Ben and Piotr must be planet busters for going toe to toe with the likes of Gladiator and WWH going by this logic.
In the end CIS is just a subset of PIS. And Villains can hold back while wanting to kill. Afterall they are villains. They dont care about killing. So that's not an argument
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yes it is exactly CIS because every speedster gets hit by things in comics that they have no business being hit by. We talk about this all the time about why its turned off in a forum fight. "X character would literally have to be retarded to get hit by this attack that he is Y multiples faster than."Just as we would argue that we would have to be retarded to be hit by some deadly slug speed attack in real life that we see coming.
We know Zoom isnt selectively retarded in a forum fight. But he can be in a comic. Afterall he is only as smart as his writer.
No, it wasnt a boxer vs boxer situation. Ali had a maybe 20% reaction time advantage over opponents he clowned and never phased through attacks casually.
Unless you are arguing that Batman held back his speed on purpose for some blows and sped them up by many thousands or millions of times for others. If he was fast enough to hit Zoom consistently (just like one boxer vs another) there would have been no need for him to stall for time (which he was doing because he knew he couldn't beat Zoom). If his reaction time was actually within spitting distance of Zoom's (the same way two boxers are) then he would have simply beaten Zoom since he had comparable reflexes combined with a massive skill advantage. Afterall Zoom is no fighter whereas Batmam is best in class at fighting.
So the setup was Zoom was out to kill Batman. Batman knew he couldn't beat Zoom because he is a super fast meta human. So he tries to stall for time...by showing that he is fast enough to hit Zoom. Who therefore must not be all that fast or that much of a threat that stalling for time is required, seeing as Batman is a way better fighter and in the same realm of speed.
The fight tried to show off Zoom's massive speed advantage while showing off batman's resourcefulness and skill
and juxtaposed the two poorly. But poor writing is nothing new in comics. Writers dont care about accurate portrayals they care about giving words to move along colorful pictures.Ben and Piotr must be planet busters for going toe to toe with the likes of Gladiator and WWH going by this logic.
In the end CIS is just a subset of PIS. And Villains can hold back while wanting to kill. Afterall they are villains. They dont care about killing. So that's not an argument
Agreed, but my point was that out of the three characters in the thread, Bats has a showing so out there we have to ignore it. Which makes him the winner. It's so OTT ridiculous, like Firelord and Spidey.