ROTJ Luke vs. the Jedi squad [canon]

I'm just saying that it is debatable whether or not Mace legitimately beat Sidious there, considering the surrounding context with Anakin.

Either way canon has established Vader as a better lightsaber duelist then Sidious, and "light-years" beyond Maul and Dooku..... And Luke was stated to be his equal. So no, I really don't see a Grievous level fighter and two other featless nothings being able to press him at all. Fodder is still fodder.

And even if Mace is legitimately > Sidious in sabers, so is Vader (and therefore Luke). Difference is that Luke's power also scales to Vaders level, while Mace's obviously does not.

All material factored in, this is Luke's fight to lose IMO.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
I'm just saying that it is debatable whether or not Mace legitimately beat Sidious there, considering the surrounding context with Anakin.

Either way canon has established Vader as a better lightsaber duelist then Sidious, and "light-years" beyond Maul and Dooku..... And Luke was stated to be his equal. So no, I really don't see a Grievous level fighter and two other featless nothings being able to press him at all. Fodder is still fodder.

And even if Mace is legitimately > Sidious in sabers, so is Vader (and therefore Luke). Difference is that Luke's power also scales to Vaders level, while Mace's obviously does not.

All material factored in, this is Luke's fight to lose IMO.

It doesn't matter that the rest can't press him, because Mace can. Like I've said multiple times now you haven't even proved Vader >> Mace yet.

And still doesn't matter because Luke isn't fast enough to avoid 3 other lightsabers with Mace presuring him.

Vader took a long time to defeat Ahsoka, there's no reason for Mace to be any different.

Originally posted by Scizard
It doesn't matter that the rest can't press him, because Mace can. Like I've said multiple times now you haven't even proved Vader >> Mace yet.

And still doesn't matter because Luke isn't fast enough to avoid 3 other lightsabers with Mace presuring him.

Canon is very clear about Dooku and Windu being peers and canon is very clear about Vader being light-years above Dooku and Vader also being the best lightsaber fighter amongst Jedis and Siths.... so not only Vader>Dooku, but Vader>>Dooku=Mace.

How have I not proven it?

in canon Vader > sidious in sabers. So even IF Mace is also above Sidious in sabers (which is still debatable due to the context of the scene), that would only put Mace's saber skill in Vader's tier. But in terms of overall Force power Vader is "light-years" above Dooku. And you probably don't want to try and pretend like Mace can even approach Vader in that department. That is a feat war you simply cannot win.

So yes, Vader would absolutely stomp Mace in an allout forum battle.

Originally posted by Scizard
Vader took a long time to defeat Ahsoka, there's no reason for Mace to be any different.

Girl was already equal to Maul as a teenager. Then she had another 15 years of training to scale up before fighting Vader.

Not to mention that she is also the embodiment of the Filoni-force. Unbeatable and unkillable. 👆

I love the Vader wank, but i think people go too far with it now. Vader being above Mace is resonable, but stomping him is unsubstantiated. Vader being above Dooku by light years doesn't put him ahead of ROTS Windu by light years since there is no evidence Windu=Dooku in power as of ROTS.
The light years quote might also be hyperbole, just like Yoda=2xDooku one which was confirmed by Matt Martin to be hyperbole. People take quotes from children books (cereal box quotes as one user named them) too seriously and too literal.

Originally posted by Darthadi
I love the Vader wank, but i think people go too far with it now. Vader being above Mace is resonable, but stomping him is unsubstantiated. Vader being above Dooku by light years doesn't put him ahead of ROTS Windu by light years since there is no evidence Windu=Dooku in power as of ROTS.
The light years quote might also be hyperbole, just like Yoda=2xDooku one which was confirmed by Matt Martin to be hyperbole. People take quotes from children books (cereal box quotes as one user named them) too seriously and too literal.

Anakin stomping Dooku was enormous gap between Dooku and Anakin, let alone Vader vs. Dooku... that was real destruction... worst destruction there was in movies.

It may be wrong, but aren't in canon the best lightsaber duelist?:

Vader
Sheev
Yoda
Maul
Dooku/Windu

Originally posted by Darthadi
The light years quote might also be hyperbole, just like Yoda=2xDooku one which was confirmed by Matt Martin to be hyperbole. People take quotes from children books (cereal box quotes as one user named them) too seriously and too literal.

Regardless, random writer comments(especially on social media) are non-canon in and of themselves -- published material always takes precedence. Matt Martin himself has stated this more than once:
https://i.imgur.com/2N8lfor.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jeFfjrT.jpg
"The facts are in the publishing itself."

People can try to ignore the information as "kiddy material" all they want, but turning a blind eye doesn't make it less canon. It just affirms bias and ignorance, tbh.

It's such a dumb argument anyway.

The entire Star Wars franchise is geared towards kids FFS.

Originally posted by Sheev

Girl was already equal to Maul as a teenager.

Urm... They were not equals.

Not even going by her Dad (Filoni) himself. In fact It took a whole ton of Filoni Force for it to even be an extended competition.

If Maul is fighting in character, they are equals. Peers at the very least. Overconfidence and general dipshittery are traits he seems to always bring into battle. 😉

And don't underestimate the Filoni-force. The dude basically created TWBW JUST to save Ahsoka, lol.

^ Well not equal in Sabers or in the Force.

Dipshittery and Filoni Force I cant factor in with any kind of reasoned logic.

Originally posted by Galan007
"Light years" isn't quantifiable anyway. It is simply meant to convey the fact that Vader is far beyond the likes of Dooku and Maul... Which we can already infer based on multiple other sources.

Regardless, random writer comments(especially on social media) are non-canon in and of themselves -- published material always takes precedence. Matt Martin himself has stated this more than once:
https://i.imgur.com/2N8lfor.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jeFfjrT.jpg
"The facts are in the publishing itself."

People can try to ignore the information as "kiddy material" all they want, but turning a blind eye doesn't make it less canon. It just affirms bias and ignorance, tbh.

And yes, Star Wars is for children too, but there is a difference between obvious kiddy sources like some referance books published by dk (just an example) and actually serious sources like the movies or a novel.
To give you an example: In "Star Wars made easy"(Children referance book) is implied Obi Wan had the advantage over Vader, yet in "From a certain point of view" (an actual serious book written by reputable authors) Vader is portrayed as far beyond Ben. I would take the later anyday as far as credibility goes. It's just way more probable to be actually something the story group care to read and check.
Of course, i don't think these children books should be just ignored (well, with the exception of Star Wars made easy because that book is just stupid and i don't think the author of that book ever watched a SW movie). But i think people put too much stock in them
Oh, and i agree that Vader is well beyond Dooku or Maul. There is too much evidence for this to not acknowledge it. I was speaking in general.

.

This is Matt's tweet.

Originally posted by Darthadi
I know that Matt Martins's tweets are not canon. But he is not just a random writer, he is a member of the story group so i would say that if he tell us to not take children sources that seriously, there must be some merit to it.

And yes, Star Wars is for children too, but there is a difference between obvious kiddy sources like some referance books published by dk (just an example) and actually serious sources like the movies or a novel.
To give you an example: In "Star Wars made easy"(Children referance book) is implied Obi Wan had the advantage over Vader, yet in "From a certain point of view" (an actual serious book written by reputable authors) Vader is portrayed as far beyond Ben. I would take the later anyday as far as credibility goes. It's just way more probable to be actually something the story group care to read and check.
Of course, i don't think these children books should be just ignored (well, with the exception of Star Wars made easy because that book is just stupid and i don't think the author of that book ever watched a SW movie). But i think people put too much stock in them
Oh, and i agree that Vader is well beyond Dooku or Maul. There is too much evidence for this to not acknowledge it. I was speaking in general.

Originally posted by Darthadi
This is Matt's tweet.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Urm... They were not equals.

Not even going by her Dad (Filoni) himself. In fact It took a whole ton of Filoni Force for it to even be an extended competition.

Martin tends to be so wishy washy about GOA.

One day he'll say not to take everything from it literally, the next day he'll endorse it by telling fans to tune in to "a new twist on canon events", the day after he'll say that each individual creator can do what they want with canon, and a few days later he'll say it's all fake anyway, so fans can choose what's canon and what isn't.

The guy contradicts himself all the time lol.

Personally I think Twitter comments are worthless unless they are being used to corroborate published canon.

LOL at Filoni being Ahsoka's dad.