Revan REVISITED (2020)

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
@S_W_LeGenD

Whilst I do think that your theory is interesting, I do believe there is a flaw in it. Nihilus could not control his HUNGER as his hunger starting growing and taking over him. It was his hunger than he couldn't control and not the Force power itself. This is also evident when Sion confronts Nihilus. Nihilus is able to basically ragdoll Sion and move him around in the air in complete control (if you watch the video you gave from 1:53 to 2:05) of the Force.

So basically his hunger took control over him and became like an instinct.

I am not claiming that Darth Nihilus was almost ZERO in the CONTROL spectrum... LMAO

How could Darth Nihilus be so good in the ALTER spectrum if he was absolutely lacking in the CONTROL spectrum to begin with? Valid consideration, right? 🙂

Just that Darth Nihilus was not in the league of Revan in the CONTROL spectrum and by extension the 'command of the Force' part. Remember that Revan had surpassed all Jedi in the galaxy as far back as in the days of the Mandalorian Wars - a significant development.

Darth Nihilus was increasingly driven by his HUNGER as he consumed more subjects over time instead of being able to exercise CONTROL - an achievement of Tenebrae (The Sith Emperor) on the other hand. Therefore, Darth Nihilus's 'command of the Force' part is SUSPECT in comparison.

Revan would also have managed better if he was in the shoes of Darth Nihilus....

Revan's incredible 'command of the Force' being highlighted in chronological order:

1) Revan's incredible 'command of the Force' is apparent from the following consideration:

Effective interrogation was an art, and Scourge had an innate ability to parse fact from fiction. He knew what questions to ask and in what order; he understood when to ratchet up the intensity and when to pull back. He knew how to use the threat of pain and the reward of mercy to control his subjects.

His advanced techniques, combined with his ability to draw upon the dark side, allowed him to quickly dominate weak minds. Strong-willed subjects were more of a challenge, yet in the end he always got results. Until now.

Interrogating the Jedi had resulted in nothing but frustration and dead ends. His will was strong, as was his command of the Force. Even drugged to the edge of unconsciousness he was able to draw on it to help him endure the pain and the relentless barrage of questions. But there was something else, as well.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

OBSERVATION: Revan was able to demonstrate CONTROL even in the most dire of circumstances.

2) Following revelation is even more telling:

The Jedi's command of and connection to the Force was unlike anything Scourge had sensed in anyone else. Even though Revan was constantly drugged, it was impossible not to sense his strength. After years of studying him, Scourge had come to understand why the Jedi had such a fearsome reputation among the Sith. With men and women like Revan in their ranks, it was easy to see how they had beaten back the Sith invasion a thousand years earlier. And it confirmed what he already suspected: the Emperor's plan to launch another invasion against the Republic at this point in time was tantamount to suicide.

However, it was more than the Jedi's raw power that interested Scourge. Unlike all the instructors at the Academy, or even Nyriss herself, Revan had experienced both the light and dark sides of the Force. He had a unique perspective on its strengths and weaknesses, and Scourge was eager to learn from his experience.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

OBSERVATION: Revan made Lord Scourge realize why invading the Republic was a bad idea....

3) Then comes the Meetra Surik part:

She still wasn't sure what to make of Lord Scourge. She had sensed that his offer to work together was sincere, though she wondered how much of that was Revan's doing. It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met. And she knew how charismatic he could be. Even though he was a prisoner it wasn't hard to imagine him being in total control of the situation.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

OBSERVATION: Meetra seems to be thinking in the PRESENT-DAY context with Lord Scourge in view.

4) Finally:

He was older and wiser. He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

THAT was the benchmark he had set in the CONTROL spectrum - virtually impossible standard for any Jedi to live up to given the Jedi philosophy and teachings.

I am looking at the SUM of all parts in this case.

Revan had superior 'command of the Force' in comparison to that of every Force-user who had interacted with Meetra up to the point of her meeting Lord Scourge.

Of-course, the novel does not go out of its way to compare Darth Nihilus and Revan in any context. Revan's superiority is rather IMPLIED through Meetra's angle in it.

@S_W_LeGenD

I am not sure why you said all that to be honest or even mentioned Revan here. You were assessing Nihilus's 'Command of the Force' based on his hunger ,which is not related at all. He could not control his hunger. That does not put his 'Command of the Force part in SUSPECT'. Hunger and the force are not the same thing. Lack of control over his hunger does not indicate or suggest a lack of control over the Force. They are entirely different.

To put it simply, assessing Nihilus's Command of the Force through his inability to control his hunger is simply invalid and unrelated.

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
@S_W_LeGenD

I am not sure why you said all that to be honest or even mentioned Revan here. You were assessing Nihilus's 'Command of the Force' based on his hunger ,which is not related at all. He could not control his hunger. That does not put his 'Command of the Force part in SUSPECT'. Hunger and the force are not the same thing. Lack of control over his hunger does not indicate or suggest a lack of control over the Force. They are entirely different.

To put it simply, assessing Nihilus's Command of the Force through his inability to control his hunger is simply invalid and unrelated.

CONTROL is centered on one's own body; CONTROL abilities allow one to endure injury and decay in order to be in the capacity to serve for decades, the ability to channel or diffuse potentially harmful radiation, to heal injuries, to counter effects of drugs, disease and poison, to suppress pain, to become nearly invisible to others and more.

To mitigate a condition? WHY NOT?

SENSE is a natural broadening of the principles of CONTROL; extending your reach beyond yourself to the environment in order to achieve cosmic awareness, to track distinct life signatures, to sense emotions in others, to register environmental sensitivities, to retrace past developments in a particular setting, and even go as far as to influence minds of others.

ALTER is further broadening of the principles of CONTROL; if you are strong in the CONTROL aspect, you will achieve significant cosmic awareness and you will be more effective in reaching out to and manipulating the external environment.

----

Darth Nihilus attempted to mitigate his condition by consuming others but it continued to worsen with each attempt and this cycle continued to take a toll on his body until it crumbled eventually. He managed to transfer his consciousness to his clothing lest he loose it due to collapse of his body and fall apart consequently (i.e. cheated death in this manner). His condition was now the source of his power, not him:

"And it rules him, not the other way round, it has its own will, its own instincts." - Darth Traya

Q: How can anyone have that kind of power?

"Power? Do you think so?

You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses… and the will behind his power is a primal thing.

And it devours him as he devours others—his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls." - Darth Traya

Now you understand the intended message of Darth Traya?

----

Darth Nihilus's condition became an entity of its own, and also the source of his power (the will behind his power is a primal thing), but the loop effect was continous (And it devours him as he devours others).

----

THAT dynamic could not last for indefinite period because Darth Nihilus does not have IMMORTALITY - his condition will take a toll on his preserved essence as well and it will be extinguished.

More in relation:

Q: So he feeds on Force-sensitives?

"It is not something he can direct or focus, much like hunger itself. He is more of a hole in the Force than a living thing.

Force Sensitives and worlds rich in the Force draw him. The Miraluka world was one such place.

That is why where the Jedi will gather, Jedi will die. He will feel it, unless they mask their presence - but Katarr called out as a beacon to him, and he could not resist it." - Darth Traya

Since he could not direct or focus in personal capacity, this is another way to suggest that his condition was the source of his power.

S_W_LeGenD

Oh I am aware that Nihilus's power is a result of his hunger/condition.

Darth Nihilus is literally a destroyer of worlds, powered by an insatiable hunger that drives him to consume greater and greater populations.

¯Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga Edition

"His power is great, and it comes from hunger. He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake life dies, sacrificing itself to his hunger."

¯Visas Marr (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)

I think there may have been a misunderstanding in what we were both talking about. You seem to be talking about Nihilus the actual guy while I was talking about Nihilus the actualy entity itself since the guy is pretty much dead and long gone. He is pretty much non-existent.